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"Remeber, if there is a nuclear explosion, be sure to close your windows as the massive heat could cause objects within your home to catch fire".

Wise, wise words.

What I am wondering is how much our possessions are worth.

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Oh, goody, the Sea Monkeys I ordered have arrived. Heh heh heh, look at them cavort and caper.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Jay, you seem to be laboring under some odd misapprehension that YOUR life is somehow in greater danger when you confront a criminal while you are armed, rather than defenseless.

This may have something to do with the frequent depiction in the entertainment media of people who draw their guns, and then are 'brow-beat' by the crook into dropping their guard, whereupon the criminal disarms and kills them.

This is one of the more glaring differences between TV and real life.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

My father is an ex-Marine (well, once a Marine always a Marine) who had, as I remember, at least 2 weapons in our house. Probably still does, but I don't live there anymore.

I do know something about guns and I know what guns can do to the human body. I own 3 rifles and 2 pistols.

Rifles: Model 1855 Enfiled Rifled Musket, .577 caliber.
Late 1890's early 1900's Springfield Trapdoor Rifle.
WWII era M1 Garand.

Pistols: .44 caliber Remington Army cap and ball pistol.
.36 caliber Colt Navy cap and ball pistol.

These generaly come from a period when I re-enacted the American Civil War and are black powder, from my Grandfather (the Springfiled), or from a time when I thought about re-enacting WWII. They are of historical significance to things that I have studied, and I do not have any amunition for these weapons.

I also own a set of steak knives.

I'm simply asking a question of people who say they would defend their property...at what point do you draw the gun? At what cost do you defend your DVD player?

Condider this if you will. Your saftey is not in question when you are at home alone. You can waddle out in your bunny slippers for a galss of milk and be ok...but when that evil bad guy makes the decision to break the law and enter your home for the purpose of taking your possessions that you worked hard for.

That in and of itself is wrong, wrong, wrong. Bad even. Please make no mistake, the criminal is the one who causes this situation in the first place...not you...that is not the issue. This person broke in...no longer are you snug in your bed, but there is someone in your house!

Is he armed? Does he just want the TV and will leave once stolen? Do I call the cops and let them handle the situation?

The criminal broke the law and should be punished. But what I am asking is how can any thinking person not understand that when you as a homeowner make the decision to confront a robber, whether you or the robber is armed or not, that the danger level has ratcheted up a considerable level?

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Oh, goody, the Sea Monkeys I ordered have arrived. Heh heh heh, look at them cavort and caper.
~C. Montgomery Burns

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Cigar Girl- "Would you like to check my figures?"

James Bond- "I'm sure that they are very well rounded..."

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"Ultra Magnus is Undeniably Fun!" David Stevens, New York Magazine.
"Total Complete excitement from start to finish!" -WPIX-TV, New York
"This isn't a thrill ride, it's a rocket..." -Richard Caves, Time Magazine.

If someone breaks into your home, you have no way of knowing what their intent is, apart from it being hostile intent. They didn't knock, they didn't send a postcard saying:

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Don't be alarmed, but on Saturday, the 1st of July, around 2:00 a.m., I'll be breaking into your home. Don't worry. I just want the T.V. and silverware.

~~Your friendly neighborhood burglar

P.S.: I'm bringing a gun, but don't worry, it isn't for you. I'll need the protection when I go back to my own neighborhood.

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If anyone breaks into my home, I will, if given the opportunity, call the police and hold the breaker at gunpoint until the cops can come collect him. If at any time during this process I feel that I, or someone else, is in immediate danger of serious injury or death from this person, I will shoot. If he lives, I will let the police know that an ambulance will be required also (hey, I dialed 911, right? They're still on the line). If the perp is definitely rendered unable to resist further, I will possibly render first aid, but only if I can do so without putting myself at risk.

I will not shoot to wound. That's foolish. A shot that's intended to wound has a very high probability of passing through the victim's body, retaining enough kinetic energy to be a lethal danger to anyone behind that person. Another consideration the "shoot-to-wound" crowd fails to consider is that bullets have LOTS of kinetic energy and do very serious damage when they strike bones, muscle, nerves and arteries. Even shooting someone in the leg (provided you don't miss such a difficult-to-hit target in the heat of the moment) you risk severing an artery, shattering bone, destroying muscle, damaging nerves, etc. You can do lethal, inhumanly painful damage to a person even if you hit a limb. If the victim does not die before paramedics can stabilize him, he stands a very good chance of being crippled for life.

Your efforts to be "kind" have resulted in a tragedy some consider worse than death. Be sure that if the victim (or his family) sues, you will be described in terms that will leave the jury in little doubt that you are a sadistic, evil bastard, delighting in the damage you inflicted upon this "poor, tortured soul". If you shoot to wound, you are gambling that your bullets will not strike innocents, and (secondarily) you risk cruelly wounding your target. You don't pull the wings off a bee to keep it from stinging you, do you?

If you are going to use or threaten lethal force, then use it as intended. Don't play with it -- you're a danger to yourself and everyone around you otherwise.

Shoot yourself. It's less trouble. Then maybe if the cops catch the guy it will be your family suing for wrongful death. Me? The cops' job would be much easier if we didn't just stand back and let the criminals alone. I'm not suggesting that we all buy guns and play vigilante, but that we be aware of our surroundings, and be wise enough to take appropriate action when the circumstances warrant, from dialing 911 to confronting a violent person (if you are capable) and stopping them from doing further harm.

~~Baloo

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Beer lovers take note:
Stroh's spelled backwards is "shorts."

http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/

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Cigar Girl- "Would you like to check my figures?"

James Bond- "I'm sure that they are very well rounded..."

Good. Let him suffer from his own actions. He does deserve it, doesn't he?

Now, I understand your arguments in the "shoot to wound" category. I agree that you may very well be right on this matter. Though I will admit that using choice force will depend on the possible danger that the criminal presents (and the situation too). A crowbar can't do anything if he's on the floor, writhing in pain. A pistol, any pistol, is much worse, and by all means, blow the fucker's head to hell. Same goes to the fucker who attacks a loved one of mine (Mother specifically excluded from this list).

Jay is right. I'm not going to kill anyone over a TV set.

"Does he just want the TV and will leave once stolen?"

Are you willing to risk your life and the life of your family on that possibility?

"how can any thinking person not understand that when you as a homeowner make the decision to confront a robber, whether you or the robber is armed or not, that the danger level has ratcheted up a considerable level?"

Are you reading Fo2's posts? Exactly what he's saying is that the danger level is NOT higher if you confront the criminal. When you've got a gun pointed at someone from across a room, they usually pose a significantly lower threat to you than they do wandering around your house unhindered.

In any case, a unencumbred criminal will generally wander through all the rooms of a house, anyway, so your chances of an encounter/confrontation if you are home are quite high in any case... even if you hide under your bed... and far more advantageous to you if you're armed.

So as I said before... you're not risking your life if you defend your house or property, as much as you are if you don't.

It says so on my front door: "Nothing here is worth your life." So it's not as if they weren't warned. You breaks your houses, you takes your chances, to paraphrase an old saying.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

The reasoning behind this? Local prosecutors argued that instead of confronting the burglar, they should have gone out the window.

As for the lethality of non-firearms, just read a book by a guy named Maple (I think) called "Dead Men Do Tell Tales." The guy is a forensic expert, seen it all. Early on he lists the various makeshift weapons he's seen used with lethal effect, including crutches and a prosthetic leg.

quote:

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Local prosecutors argued that instead of confronting the burglar, they should have gone out the window.

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And by that logic, they declare (though not expressly) that you do not have the right to be safe anywhere. If you can't be safe in your own home, how are you safer crawling out the window? Perhaps you'd better live in the park, where you can run no matter what direction someone approaches you. Perhaps you'd better break into other peoples' homes. No-one can shoot you for threatening them there, and if they do, it is they who will suffer the vengeance of the law.

The burglar is secure in his right to invade your home and threaten your safety, but you are not secure in your right to be secure in your own house.

This is justice?

~~Baloo

------------------
Beer lovers take note:
Stroh's spelled backwards is "shorts."

http://www.geocities.com/cyrano_jones.geo/

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