posted
I don't know if the subject of the US draft has ever been brought up before...
I'm 18, almost 19, and by law I'm required to sign up for the draft. Realistically though, the chances of me being drafted if a war broke out tomorrow are extremely low. First you got the active military, reserves, inactive reserves, and recently retired personnel. So basically having to sign up doesn't really bother me.
But my question is, do you think women should also be required to sign up? I know when the concept was originally started women weren't allowed in combat, but times have changed. And since women can serve in combat I think they should also be able to get drafted. Part of the reason I bring this up is from hearing that some women, the same who advocate equal rights, don't think they need to be included in a draft. I believe that in today's world women are just as capable of serving in the military or anywhere else as men, as well as fully equal rights.
The one thing I can't stand is when equal rights groups want equal rights, but special exceptions at the same time.
------------------ "There's a new Mexico?" - Mr. Burns This post is sponsored in part by the Federation Starship Datalink
Well, instead of delving into the questions that surround the draft (espcially in the Vietnam era), let me just say that:
One of the most effective militaries is that of the United States. Why? It's not the equipment, or the training, (although that does play a large role). It's because every single person in the military (male or female, black and white, Fleet Admiral to PFC), WANTS to be in the military. Perhaps they're using it to pay for school, or just to get out of a bad situation, but they WANT to be there, and they KNOW that one of the risks is death if a War is to be fought.
Utilizing the draft brings in people who not only don't WANT to be in the military, but who now RESENT the Government for interfering with their pursuit of happiness.
I personally believe the draft to be illegal, and unconstitutional. I registered, sure. Would I respond if I was drafted? Well, I guess it depends on the conflict. Frankly, any conflict bad enough to *require* the draft would have to be pretty damn big.
A Volunteer Military (in that, people enlist voluntarily, not that they don't get paid) is the way the U.S. needs to go. Especially with the weapons today -- soon, the majority of our Armed Forces personnel will sit behind desks and play with computers firing missiles, and a very small minority will actually venture into the fields with M-16s and M-P5s.
Women in combat? Good or bad idea? If a woman can do the job, why the hell not? But should they be required to register for the draft? No, because its unconstitutional.
Hobbes, which special interest groups have you talked to? A lot of women here at TU (a high mix of liberals, which might surprise some) *want* to be able to register for the draft ...
posted
Sweden drafts, but if you don't want to serve there are ways of getting out, and not all of them by lying through your teeth. We have a pretty motivated fighting force here, albeit small. The only problems at the time are the gigantic cutbacks the government is carrying out.
About the gender-issue, the Swedish Duty office and army accepts any (and recieves many) women volunteering, but they're not drafted. That, however, is a big discussion in the Riksdag, our parliament. Maybe they will be, in the future.
------------------ Here lies a toppled god, His fall was not a small one. We did but build his pedestal, A narrow and a tall one.
posted
The draft: I had to register, not that it mattered, since I was already in the Delayed Entry Program for the Army.
The Volunteer Army of the US is an excellent concept, which at times isn't executed all that well.
The draft is an emergency measure, nothing more, till we are faced with another Vietnam. If a war/conflict is something the people believe in then no draft will be needed, the Gulf War caused a jump in enlistments, Grenada did to a smaller degree. The numbers of troops that the Gov't can call on is quite high, with the Active Duty, Reserves, National Guards, and Inactive Ready Reserves, so a draft would only take place for a multi-front world war, or a single front is facing the Chinese.
Women in combat..... If you look at abilities, not a problem. If you look at logistics, it is a freaking nightmare. Hygien would be the biggest threat to women in combat, not the opposing forces. 1: How would things like jungle rot from slogging through rice paddies affect a woman, since a shower is, at best, weeks away? 2: Just being in the woods for weeks on end is going to make a woman feel not so clean/fresh.
Both cases you need to have water shipped every 3 to 4 days, or a 3 to 4 day rotation to/from the field. This makes the need for more drivers/pilots, vehicles/aircraft, plus twice as many female grunts. On average 10% of the military is infantry. A 1,000 man infantry battalion needs 10,000 support personal, and can stay in the field for up to 60 days. A 1,000 woman infantry battalion needs the same 10,000 support personal and shouldn't stay in the field for, say, pushing it, 6 days. This makes the equilivant of 10 male battalions, jumping the supporting force to 60,000.
If you are thinking of the Military Police, that is a different story, since they don't usually do long stints in the field. Their function is, for the most part, no different than your local police force, which includes women.
Thank you Ritten 2/36th Infantry, 3rd AD 3/5th Cavalry, 3rd AD 1/225th Infantry, 38th ID 1/125th Infantry, 38th ID
------------------ Well, it's done, yes, the deed is done.
posted
An interesting question, Hobbes. One I haven't given all that much thought to.
As for women being drafted, I think they should be included in the draft records, but as with anyone else, they shouldn't be allowed to do the job if they're not qualified. My dad was drafted in Vietnam, but failed the physical due to his hearing. ("How long have you had this hearing problem, son?" "Sir?" "I said, 'HOW LONG'... oh forget it. Go home.") Now not to sound cheauvanistic, but women in general are not as qualified physically to engage in combat as men, again in general. If you can do the job, you should be allowed to do it.
Of course, that's just my legal stance. My personal preference is that women not be in combat at all. War is hell, after all. I tend to be rather protective of the opposite sex.
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
I don't about the hygene issue. Or have women Army and Marines etc. been unable to function without showers etc. after an extended period in the brush?
I mean, frankly, I'd be wanting a shower and new clothes every day ... maybe that's just me ...
Omega, in re: to phyiscal strength ... how much average strength does it take to pull the trigger on an M-16 or an MP5 or a CAR-15 or a Beretta? Women are on SWAT teams ... why not in the SEALS, or Marine Force Recon?
posted
JeffK, try living that life for a few years, it gets old, but I learned to accept the fact that when I was in the woods that I was going to get really funky, especially when showers, were at best, 3 or 4 weeks apart. Mechanized Infantry isn't too bad, because you can take a water buffalo with you, 100 gallon water trailer. This is used for drinking and taking whores baths. Being in a light infantry (leg, air assault, & airborne) you don't have the luxuries of a mech soldier.
Strength has something to do with it, 80 pound rucksacks suck as bad a the lack of showers. If a person can not carry what they need they just increased the demand on the logistics trains.
------------------ Well, it's done, yes, the deed is done.
posted
Ah, yes, good point, Ritten. Re: the 80 pound sacks, I mean.
Now, I saw a special on TLC about Parris Island, and the end of boot camp, both male and female enlistees had to go on a 2- or 3- day exercise, and they all seemed weighed down quite a bit with equipment.
Speaking of which, what does the average GI carry?
*M-16 (or other heavy rifle, SAW perhaps?) *Frag Grenade (?) *Extra Rifle Clips *Radio (?) *Food? Water?
posted
Indeed, Omega and Ritten have a point. If you cannot qualify for the job, then you shouldn't be drafted. Last I knew, most of the female population aren't physically the same as men.
A question for Ritten: Do women in the army go through the same exact tests and training that men do?
------------------ "I'm not like George Bush. If he wins or loses, life goes on. I will do anything to win." - Al Gore, Newsweek, 1999
How many jobs in the military don't require great physical exertion? There are quite a few. A support group of 10,000 to support 1,000 men in the field?
So, going under the assumption that women shouldn't be allowed in combat, if we drafted women to fill the support group positions, those men freed from those jobs could go fight, yes?
And again, *if* an individual can't measure up to the physical standards ... not if a woman can't ...
And, Jeff, NONE of the female population ANYWHERE are exactly the same phyically as men. We've got penises and they don't ... =)
posted
This is what we had to carry, for the most part: 1 claymore mine (M-18) 1 M-16 with six ready clips 4 M-67 Fragmentaion grenades, ready 1 spare prick 77 radio battery 6 to 12 spare clips for M-16 8 M-67s 4 days of rations 2 ready canteens of water 2 spare canteens of water 1 NBC Suit 1 Poncho 1 Set of wet weather gear 1 Weapons cleaning kit 1 Shaving kit 2 changes of uniforms 1 flashlight with spare batteries and red lense 1 set of spare batteries 2 smoke grenades 1 compass 1 bedroll 10 light sticks 1 field jacket 1 SINGARS (Single Channel Radio System)((sometimes) 1 mortar round (sometimes 2) 1 spare M-60 belt Plus the protective mask and those f*ck*ing needle sets. Plus your personal stuff of cigarettes, lighters, MRE heaters, writing stuff, and this sort of thing.
Then you had the poor bastards that carried the radios, plotting boards, M-60s(instead of the 16s), and various pieces of the mortar.
That's another point, you don't carry stuff just for yourself, you've got to help the squad carry it's equipment, the platoon, and the company. That is a lot of shit to move around.
------------------ Well, it's done, yes, the deed is done.
Well, if a woman can survive the rigors of BUD/S training, then she should be a SEAL. However, I think the women that are able to are rare, and are usually off coachin Girls High School Basketball or something.
------------------ "Karate is a form of martial arts in which people who have had years and years of training can, using only their hands and feet, make some of the worst movies in the history of the world." - Dave Barry
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