posted
No, simply that it is a living member of a sentient species. As consiousness is a requirement for sentience, someone in a coma could not be said to be sentient AT THE TIME. However, he may be sentient again. That cow out in the field has no chance of ever becoming sentient, and thus I have no problem with eating it.
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
posted
You're still dealing with mere possibilities and probabilities, Omega. There is a difference between being human and becoming human. There is a point during anyone's life where they cross that line. Before that point, I have no more problem with an abortion than I do with haircuts. After that point, I begin to have ethical concerns, dependant upon the situation.
posted
Define that line. When the heart starts beating? When you're born? When you hit puberty? They're all stages of development. Heck, before puberty, you could still make the argument that the person is not a completed human being. What gives you or anyone else the right to decide when life begins?
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
posted
Uh...when did I say anything about being alive? Flies are alive, but I don't exactly regret swatting them out of the air. What I actually posted, on the other hand, is all about being human, which requires both being alive and a little something extra.
No less a thinker than St. Augustine, by the way, wrote that a fetus could not be considered human until it could feel pain. Which isn't to say that I think that's the requirement, but it's food for thought.
posted
Omega, you answered my questions in my 2nd to last post with a question, while slamming my grammar...
This is a nice 'switch' in tactics for you too.....
Now, don't ask me another question, or anybody any questions, till you answer the ones posted to you. You seem to be making yourself in to what you accuse others of being, which is making you look bad.
------------------ Well, it's done, yes, the deed is done.
posted
How can I answer a question that makes no sense, Ritty? "No questions Omega, unless you don't want to have the ball tossed back into your court." This makes no sense.
As for the rest of you, how can you arbitrarily decide that, "OK, this is alive, and this isn't?" It all comes down to the benefit of the doubt. If it was suddenly discovered that certain flies could communicate with humans, but only a miniscule percentage of them, would you still not hesitate to swat them?
What gives you the right to define human life in such a manner that it excludes certain beings that could be included? In fact, why would you want to? Simply so you can avoid the consequences of your actions, if you please?
------------------ "You know, you--you let a wolf save your life, they make you pay and pay and pay..." - Fraser, "due South"
Talk to women who have had abortions. You'll find that many are deeply regretful of what they did. It's not avoiding the consquences, its about making a choice and living with it.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
posted
"Pregnant women drinks, she is fined for the first offense, fined and 1 week in jail for the second, incarcerated for the third and loses custody of the child when born, even if she wanted it. Same thing for smoking cigarettes. Illegal or illegally obtained drugs the penalty jumps right to the third drinking offense, with a longer term in prison. Sound like bullshit, it won't be if laws are passed controlling a womens body."
1. All laws that exist are aimed at controllling someone's body or actions. ALL of them.
2. Laws of this type already exist. There's laws against poisoning people, didn't you know that? There are already a few laws against self-destructive behavior.
Myself, I don't have a problem with self-destructive behavior. If you wanna poison your system, FINE. I don't care. Snort the coke, jump the bungee, put the pistol to your head. The problem arises when you decide to take somebody else WITH you, and don't give them any say in the matter. That we can't agree on. So yeah, if she drinks and smokes while pregnant, tough shit for her! Everybody KNOWS that's bad for a developing fetus, so this falls, once again, under "shoulda thought of that before we left."
*Digression* That's why my solution to the drug legalization problem is so simple: We'll legalize the stuff, but if you harm another person while under its influence, we shoot you in the face. That's fair.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited December 13, 2000).]
posted
I can't believe this, but I'm actually agreeing with some of what Omega says.
*dies*
Sol: "There is a difference between being human and becoming human. There is a point during anyone's life where they cross that line. Before that point, I have no more problem with an abortion than I do with haircuts. After that point, I begin to have ethical concerns, dependant upon the situation."
I agree with some of this. The main problem I have is what Omega keeps saying. Where do you draw the line. To take Sol's quote above, when do you see the point at which the person crosses the line? When the heart starts breathing? When they turn around in the womb? When they start school?
I wouldn't want to judge it. If the situation warrented it, I would probably agree with abortions if they were done as soon as possible. Would anyone here agree with abortion if the woman was 8 months pregnent?
------------------ "I am in one of those rare periods of life where I am convinced I am a sexy devil."- Simon "Sol System" Sizer
posted
*odd bit of humor follows* Personally, I think you qualify as pre-human the first time you resist satisfying a baser impulse or need in order to reap larger future benefits.
"I really wanna cooky, but I'll spoil my supper. So I won't eat the cooky"
You qualify as human if you can do this more than half the time.
You qualify as expert-human if you can get OTHER people to do it.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
I suspect we're doomed to disagree on that point, Liam. I do not believe that there is any component of the human "soul" that extends beyond the brain. You don't have a human being until a neural net is developed that is complex enough to provide for what we recognize as a self aware entity.
posted
See, Omega, is it bad to masturbate because all those millions of sperm will then never be offered the chance to impregnate a woman and turn into a little baby? Now, that's an example of taking it WAAAAAY too far ... (just off the top of my head)
I'd honestly prefer to see all abortions done within the first trimester.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 7.5 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux *** Shop Smart -- Shop "S"-Mart
*odd bit of humor follows* 
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