posted
if you used your head once in a while you'd see that he [Hitler] was a genius
Is THAT why he invaved Russia when he did? Not to mention starting a bombing war that leveled half of Berlin. He may have been a charismatic leader, but he was a total moron, with an ego the size of Poland.
You know, I'm gonna put your post into my quote archive. That line about Canada's priceless.
TO be able to rally an entire people so they will beleive in you and follow you blindly takes a hell of a lot of intelligence and oratory skills.
No, just the oratory skills.
------------------ "Omega is right." -Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM
posted
He was a political, or perhaps an oratorical, genius, but most definitely not a military one. As a military commander, he was thoroughly incompetent. He ignored his experienced generals, and let his political beliefs interfere with his military planning. His irrational hatred of the slavs caused him to attack Russia at exactly the wrong time, thus opening up an ultimately unwinnable 2-front war, when the best tactic, which he was frequently advised to take, was to use the Russian's dissatisfaction with their government to political advantage, weakening them from the inside, while first dealing with Britain and consolidating his strength in the West. THEN, with that front settled and Russia in turmoil, he could have attacked. The US would not have rushed to help theh USSR. No one else would have been capable.
Given the same resources, _I_ could have done better.
And then there's his silly ideas on races and genetics. I can't even BEGIN to tell you how stupid THOSE were.
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
posted
Canada did nothing to ensure Britain's survival in the second War. Hitler did, by using his genius to open the two front war with Russia.
Hitler wasn't a genius. Not in the slightest. He was a fairly good Political and public manipulator, having studied Machiavelli, and using many similar concepts in Mein Kampf.
If anything, his advisors were the Geniuses. Once he had secured power by Chancellorship, the rest of his party began to work. I've read an interesting thesis, using diaries and transcribed accounts that indicate that Eichmann and Haushofer were the main source of any 'genius' witnessed.
Besides, this thread <> about Hitler. I does = about bully legislation. The SAS will have free ROE with any further Hijackers.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
quote:He was a political, or perhaps an oratorical, genius, but most definitely not a military one.
I don't remember which War movie it was, but an American general was putting together a spec-ops team to go into Germany and prevent Hitler's assassination. He called Hitler "our best ally."
Which was true. The German military was so tied up in protocal, that the only reason German heavy armor and artillary in Normandy didn't stop the invasion was because no one wanted to go wake Hitler to ask permission to give the order!
Not to mention that the Axis Treaty didn't require either Germany or Italy to go to War with the US when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor -- the treaty only stipulated that the Axis powers would declare war if war was declared on any one of them first. Japan's first strike attack nullified that, but Hitler declared war anyway.
He was a military idiot -- yet it's important to note that apparently, at his "mass gatherings" in stadiums, he could bring women to orgasm simply by speaking! (Believe it or not, this is true).
Omega, to ignore or diminish the contribution of other countrys' militaries in the invasion of France and the defeat of Hitler (and Japan) is uncalled for. Of course, I'd actually be surprised if you even knew that Australians fought in 'Nam ...
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 28, 2001).]
posted
I fail to see how you can diminish Hitler's influence on this world. He was many things but not a moron, the mistakes that were made, were made because of arrogance, not stupidity, and I think I speak for everyone when I say: "Thank god he made them!" Because without those mistakes he just might have won the war. Britain and France were crippled after WWI and if not for the involvement of Canada in the beggining of WWII, there wouldn't have been much of Europe left for you americans to save when you finally did decide to join the battle.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
posted
Aside from the fact this thread is not about Hitler, you just posted virtually this exact same post higher up. I don't think anyone's going to expend any effort tearing your argument apart, because they already have. You should read when people respond to you.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
"I fail to see how you can diminish Hitler's influence on this world."
As far as I can tell, no one has. Hitler is certainly an important figure in general history.
"He was many things but not a moron, the mistakes that were made, were made because of arrogance, not stupidity,"
He was many things. A political manipulator, yes. A public controller, yes. A military genius? No.
Oh he was a moron, all right. Have you ever read Mein Kampf? No, you probably haven't. Well, I'll spare you the trouble. "Jews are bad, they made us lose, and took our money, and stuff. I am having the unability to write a coherent. Jews are bad again. Aryan power!" Anyone who subscribed to the theories of his Tree of People is most definitely a moron. The person who wrote it, even moreso.
Although quite arrogant, his mistakes were most certainly the result of stupidity. He had no grasp of Strategy, and very little of Tactics. For the first years of the war, Hitler was a non-entity in the command structure of the Army. Guderian, Stenzi and others were the men who had nearly crippled France. Hitler adopted the von Manstein method of attacking France, and drove to within miles of Paris. After this, Hitler thought he was the king of the Man Train, with preconceived notions that he was a military genius and the destined leader of a superior Germany.
Then, after the objection - and summary execution - of Stenzi and other Higher ranking Military officials, plans for the Invasion of Russia were drafted.
Not listening to your trusted Military advisors and getting you ass kicked sure seems stupid to me.
"and I think I speak for everyone when I say: "Thank god he made them!"
Indeed. His lack of Military genius-ism cost him the war. We are all glad that Wilhem Keite was not in Berlin during the Drafting of the Russian invasion. Hitler would most certainly have listened to him.
"Because without those mistakes he just might have won the war."
More or less. Although Hitler would have had much less importance in winning the war as he did in losing it.
"Britain and France were crippled after WWI"
Excuse me? Britain and France *were* crippled after WWI, but minisculey compared the the ruin that was the German empire. The Treaty of Versailles maintained this. However, due to the Allies policies of Appeasement, by 1932 Germany was indeed once again strong. Britain and France still had the capability to defend themselves. And they did, but due to stenuous circumstances, they ended up getting shafted.
"and if not for the involvement of Canada in the beggining of WWII, there wouldn't have been much of Europe left for you americans to save when you finally did decide to join the battle."
First, the Americans had a policy of Isolationism. Good idea at the time, too. They didn't just pick up one day from their game of Backgammon and think 'We should, sully me, join those dear boys over in Europe, my friend.' They did of course, have to respond to the immediate threat to their west.
Second, CANADA DID VERY LITTLE, if at all to keep Britain from being completely annexed by the Germans. You overestimate your little country. Canada, with her token force of three soldiers and a dog, did, in the grand scheme of things, nothing to stop the Juggernaut that was the non-Hitler commanded German Armor. If Russia hadn't been called into play, Canada would probably be where the Queen would be sitting. (The Royalty did have a contingency plan. If Britain were overwhelmed, the Royalty would have fled to Canada and ruled from there. This was in 1940, and we were still subjugate)
Although, after World War II, from 1946-1948 had the second largest Navy in the world. Of course, everyone else's had been obliterated, but still, interesting, nonetheless.
*SAS shoots me.*
You may now return to what this thread is supposed to be about.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 28, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited March 28, 2001).]
posted
Mein Kampf is a rather fascinating book. Hitler pretty much predicted everything that would happen in the War (erm, up until he lost in Russia, then the two diverge...)
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
posted
For the most part, yes. But the accuracy of most of it stems from his knowledge of political manipulation, and who would answer to what and where. And Jews are bad.
(BTW, here's a fun game I invented just now with my copy of it. Close the book. Randomly select a page, and see how many times the word 'Jew' appear. Uh, you could make it a drinking game, and take sips for every word, and if you don't get any, you buy the other person a drink. This wouldn't be for me, though, as Alcohol is from Satan.)
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
Second, CANADA DID VERY LITTLE, if at all to keep Britain from being completely annexed by the Germans.
There's more to fighting than just the fighting. There's the support and financing and commerce and supplies. Did you guys know that South Africa very nearly sided with the Nazis during the war? Hardly suprising considering Apartheid years later, but a large portion of the (white) South African population supported Germany. And some believe that it was South Africa's assistance in shipping and commerce which helped tide Britain over during the worst months.
Consider that the Germans were not only bombing the English cities from the air, but sinking their food and clothes and ammunition at sea. And they came very close to starving Britain to defeat.
On Topic, or The Bullying Threat
There's not much to be said here, but legislation against bullying is obviously not the answer. It's not going to stop the kids, the teachers have enough on their hands without wading into the relationships of more than two dozen little kids.
I'm someone who could be considered a victim myself, as in that I was the target of calculated and repeated bullying all through grade school. I went to an inner city school, so most of the kids were black and came from a vastly different culture than me. (The background is complex and NOT racial. I won't go into it much here.) Suffice to say that because I was a lot different from them, I was often the target of jokes and ridicule. There was the time the entire class of 20 students crowded around me during lunchtime, and one of them told me to take a bite of my sandwich. They all started laughing at me because of my unconscious habit of wiping my mouth with my napkin after almost every bite. Then there was the time half the class started chanting "You heard the nerd" during recess. Or any of a dozen or more incidents during my five years there.
You haven't heard about me in the papers. Sure, I thought about doing a number of very nasty things to some of my classmates over the years. But I never ever planned to actually DO any of them. The thing is that that kind of decision can't be addressed directly. It can only be helped by surroundings and support and family and friends. I had those. Some of these kids probably didn't.
I don't have any real "solutions" to this kind of problem. Partially because I can't imagine actually taking such violent action myself, or even anyone I've known doing something like that. It's an attitude, for me.
posted
Fine, back to the topic. Legislating against bullying is as uselles as was legislating against alcohol in the 30s, it gave birth to organized crime. If you legislate against bullying, you will give bullies a lot more reasons to bully, it'll be really cool now.
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
posted
Can you maybe.... perhaps.... CHILL MAN!!! I don't know why you have to be so pompous all the time, and that goes for a lot of people, just chill. The world isn't gonna end if you don't act all superior and condescending, but then again you knew that already, but you did it anyways. WHY???
Coming back to my reason, not because anyone forced you to do so, but cuz you CAN!! This is the general attitude of all humans on earth: I will give him a hard time, not because he did anything to me, nor because I'm getting paid for it, but because I CAN! I'm gonna be a jerk, because no one is gonna stop me!
And then again, instead of talking it out reasonably you(or someone else) is gonna do a fifty page dissection of this topic and find flaws in my argument, well big deal, I know they're there, but you're gonna slam it in my face anyway, because you can, and because it makes you feel better in your unstable shell that you're hiding in.
I take it easy. I never explode on anyone. I never spend hours searching for the flaw in other's arguments just so I can say: "I beat you, you suck!!" In a full page 1200 word format.
Well if you're gonna dissect this(anyone) than go ahead and do it, because you will only prove my POINT!!
------------------ "Well if it's gonna be that kind of a party, I'm putting my dick in the mashed potatoes!"
-Nimrod 16/4/2001
[This message has been edited by infinity11 (edited March 28, 2001).]
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I am currently a sophomore in high school, and we are going to have some of these wonderful anger management seminars of which you have spoken. We are also going to have lockdown drills and mass evacuation drills.
I feel that if there is one good thing coming out of this, its awareness. Thirty years ago, would anyone think of a student trying to do this? Now we know about it, we at least make an EFFORT to stop what is happening.
Frankly, I don't understand why this is happening now. Because of new weapons control legislation? Because of violence on TV and elsewhere? What? The education system of yore was much more punishing to what we now consider potential killers, so it had to be something besides the school system and the school environment.
posted
infinty: If anyone needs to chill here, it's you dude. You take things way too personally. I'm not trying to be superior to you, just pointing out the flaws and errors in yor logic and position. This is the flameboard. We debate things here, don't post if you're not willing to.
Daniel: I'd say the reason that this is happening now, is also Awareness. We've been exposed to it now, and we're only now seeing that there is a problem. While perhaps legislation against bullying may or may not work, it's a step toward action, and if it fails, we may see people wanting to try something else.
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
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