Somebody oughta arrest this guy (Bender) for illegal burning.

That's how a few states nailed some people for torching the US flag.

*"When they did this, they did it before all so it would provoke the question, 'What are you doing?"' said Bender, whose followers believe in faith healing and speaking in tongues.*

Good. I hope you all get cuts that get infected and FUCKING DIE, you brainstem.

*Bender said the church had never held a book burning before but might try it again if doing so would "accomplish something positive toward expressing our love for God."*

Of course. Everyone knows God loves a good wienie roast. Moron.

*Meanwhile, publicity has not hurt. "We got some people mad at us. But it's good to have publicity. It's good," he said.*

And it will be equally good if someone frags your ass all the way to hell.

I hate this country.

Choo-Choo

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"Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."

-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.

But I tell ya, it's not easy being a nonreligious conservative. Too much of what they believe, especially when it comes to society. seems to be based on Biblical claptrap rather than reasoned arguments.

QW:

You fundies have gone too far this time.

Who are you addressing? There be no fundies here, by your definition.

Rob:

he never kills the one guy who is shown to be the book's primary villain.

Revelation 20:10. Good enough for you?

At best, that's like a movie about a hostage situation, but by the time the cops get there and take out the terrorist, he's already killed all the hostages.

Or where a bad guy is going to nuke a city... but they don't catch him until after the bomb's gone off.

Not much of an ending.

With the comments regarding the anger towards schools not taking bibles but taking Harry Potter stuff, perhaps we should find a school who takes bibles and not Harry Potter stuff, organize a campfire close to that area and burn the bibles instead.

And, in this version of Conspiracy, Picard, Riker, and the Enterprise crew are already all dead because of the bugs.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001

Your analogy is flawed. You neglect the fact that (yes, according to my beliefs, but that IS what we're arguing about) the things that happen to you DO NOT MATTER. Not how you die. Not if you die. Not why you die. Not when you die. All that matters is what side you're on when you die.

But I like your analogy, in its basic concept. Let me rewrite it to be more accurate.

God creates humanity in a giant field. In the middle of this field is a single skyscraper. A dark, twisted, ruined, hideous skyscraper. The building has been condemned, but there are still some people living in it, including the designer and builder. They're told that the building's coming down, but they refuse to leave, simply out of spite. They REALLY don't like God.

Anyway, God tells man, "Hey, see that building? That building's going to be destroyed, so don't go in there, 'cause you'll get lost, and the people in there will hurt you." Well, man didn't listen. We went into the condemned building, and sure enough, we got lost. Remember those loonies living there? They tried to trick anyone they found, saying that they'd found the way out, when they were really leading them deeper into the maze. They'd lie to them, saying that others were trying to hurt them. But above all, they weren't allowed to leave. They became hostages. Remember, they REALLY don't like God. They can't hurt Him directly, but they can hurt what He cares about. So we're all trapped in the building, away from God. And the building's going down.

Now we place God in the role of the negotiating cop. He has to save the kids inside. The building's coming down. The problem: He's too big. He can't fit inside. But He has one Son, one who could fit. Well, Son, being an obedient kid who wants to save the others, too, goes in. He knows this building, and He knows how to find the way out. The people holding them hostage realize that they must do something, or the game's up. But they can't hurt Son. He's heavily armed.

"But," they say, "He can't hurt the children." So they lie some more. They convince their hostages to kill the One coming to lead them out. They succeed, but not before He shows them the exit. Freedom for all who want it. Sadly, the hostages fell into three categories. There were those who wanted out, and left when given the chance. There were those that had actively joined the deceivers, but had themselves been deceived into not caring that the building would be destroyed. Then, the third group: those who refuse to acknowledge that they were captives, that they were lost. Those that blindly say, "Hey, there's nothing wrong with my life. Building? Building implies that there's something else. There's nothing outside these walls. This IS all of existance, and thus, why should I try to leave? In fact, the very concept of leaving is laughable."

Keep in mind that in this scenario, you still have to take into account that what happens to people doesn't REALLY matter. It's like a video game. You personally have some arbitrary time limit on how long you can play, and the game itself will only run for so long. You WILL stop playing eventually. The only question is where you're going to leave your character when you do.

The building's coming down. Do you want to be inside when it falls?

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Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.

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"Omega is right."
-Jeff Karrde, March 18, 2001 08:47 PM

Actually, I think that those who burn books are only a few short steps away from burning the authors, too. But I'm curious as to what you can do about it. Plus, you know, devil's advocate, etc.

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Not even a god can deny that I have squared the circle of a static Earth and cubed the Earth sphere by rotating it once to a dynamic Time or Life Cube.
--
Gene Ray
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet" Or don't. You know, whatever.

But here's a start.

1: God made the condemned building. Why he made such a dark and twisted facade, or allowed it to fall into such disrepair without bringing it down, is never explained. Perhaps he's just another absentee landlord.

1a: he put the terrorists and the loonies in the building, too.

2: You are again assuming that the people in your analogy are reasoning beings, capable of telling whether they've been told the truth or not. As we've pointed out before, people with no concept of right/wrong & true/false will believe things in the order that they are told them. They won't know that what God told them is any more accurate than what the serpent told them.

"Anyway, God tells man, "Hey, see that building? That building's going to be destroyed, so don't go in there, 'cause you'll get lost, and the people in there will hurt you.""

3. Nevermind that this doesn't happen in the original version of the story, eh?

4. If he really cared about keeping the kiddies out, he could've put up a fence. That's what the plot critics would say.

5 And, of course, you've got an all-powerful hostage negotiator. He doesn't HAVE to let ANYBODY die. (Note to future writers.. an omnipotent character makes for a very poor protagonist.) He CHOOSES to sacrifice them... or to let them sacrifice themselves, which is essentially the same thing.

6. We never really know if the building comes down or not. It all happens offscreen.

That's a start. You'd never sell that picture to a studio. No sane person would buy it.

As for things that happen to you not mattering... SURE they do. If experiences and interventions didn't MATTER, you would never have had PAUL, now would you? MIRACLES are a concession to the fact that things here DO matter.

Some people turn to faith based on their life experiences. Some turn away based on different experiences. We humans are very, VERY prone to act on our experiences.

No, Satan made the building.

1a: he put the terrorists and the loonies in the building, too.

No, they live there of their own accord.

2: You are again assuming that the people in your analogy are reasoning beings, capable of telling whether they've been told the truth or not.

And yet again, you're making the assumption that an adult with full reasoning skills, but missing a vital piece of knowledge, will behave in any way you can predict. You also can't predict how such a person would react to a direct communication from God.

"Anyway, God tells man, "Hey, see that building? That building's going to be destroyed, so don't go in there, 'cause you'll get lost, and the people in there will hurt you.""

3. Nevermind that this doesn't happen in the original version of the story, eh?

"And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

Genesis 2:16-17

4. If he really cared about keeping the kiddies out, he could've put up a fence.

God cares about our free will. If we're FORCED to love Him, what's the point? The whole idea is that we have a choice. You can choose to be in the building when it colapses. It'd be an incredibly stupid thing to do, but you can choose it.

5. And, of course, you've got an all-powerful hostage negotiator.

Omnipotence is frequently misconstrued as the ability to do literally anything. God can't defy logic ("Can God create a rock so big that He can't lift it?"), nor can he deny His basic nature. God CAN'T go into the building himself, because He can't fit: He can't, by His nature, be in the presence of sin.

He CHOOSES to sacrifice them... or to let them sacrifice themselves, which is essentially the same thing.

No, it's not. That's like saying that if we legalize drugs, we're responsible for the choices of the people on drugs. It's sillyness. Everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. You can't blame God when you make a choice, simply because He gave you the ability to choose. It's YOUR decision, and no one else's.

6. We never really know if the building comes down or not. It all happens offscreen.

"The Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Revelation 20:10. Sounds like it's demolished to me.

MIRACLES are a concession to the fact that things here DO matter.

Only insofar as they can help change the location where someone ends the game. Saul was SAVED because of the miracle, and he, having been saved, helped save tens of millions more. What happens to you in life doesn't matter, unless it affects your position with God when you die.