"The anger of the perpetrators in NO WAY excuses or justifies their actions."

Again, that's true. What's your point?

You have a funny way of arguing, agreeing w/ me all the time...

"Thank you for hitting the the hammer on the nail so nicely."

What exactly does that mean? Is it like "hitting the nail on the head", or different?

"If you march with a swastika flag, it's kind of obvious you're supporting what Nazi Germany stood for."

"Unless you're not, because, as I mentioned, the Nazi use of the symbol is predated by its incorporation in many Asian cultures as a positive icon."

Some Native American cultures, too, I believe. As a matter of fact, when I visited Washington, DC, there were some seats in the Senate for people to sit and watch what was going on (nothing was at the time), and the upholstery had a swastika-based pattern.

*ahem*

Not that I've ever studied the period or anything, but I'll be derned if there doesn't seem to be some interesting reading of mid 1800's history.

Not the least of which is:

quote:

---

Correct. So why is it unreasonable to assume that slavery would have disappeared without the aggression of the national government?

---

So we conclude that the anti-slavery societies that were less than very popular were going to whipe out the institution all by their lonesome?

Fascinating.

Ever hear of John Brown?

There was, simply put, one way that the slave holders would give up their "property" and that was compensation. The government had no legal right to end slavery until the Constitution was amended. With compensation comes a few important sub-items. How much are the slaves worth as prooerty, who is going to pay, where would the former slaves go (goodness knows they didn't want them to stay here), and how long would the process take (some estimates were for it to end around 1900 or so).

To say that slavery was on it's way out simply because of the industrial movement is specious and does not take into account the institutional nature of slavery in the south and the leaching systemic way it attached itself to the "peculiar" nature of the south in particular. Slavery was on its way out in 1860 the same was Hitler was on his way out in 1937 or the same way that any human institution is transitory. In as much as it was protected by law, culture and sociatal beliefs, in 1860, it was far from done with.

The question about slavery, as such was discussed by those against the institution and not an abolitionist** in the 1850's came in the form of the expansion of the institution into Federal territories. Lincoln opposed that expansion (read his speech of 26 June 1857 here. It turned out to be a rather big question...Bleeding Kansas, Dred Scott and all.

But it is incorrect to fall into the neo-Confederate trap of 'slavery didn't count for anything' as a cause of the war or that slavery was dying. Both aren't true.

Argue on about the Confederate flag all you want. However, bear in mind when the "battle flag" was added to various southern state flags and symbols.

**abolitionists were for the immediate and non-compensated ending of slavery...Lincoln was not an abolitionist.

[QUOTE FROM TSN]Thank you for hitting the the hammer on the nail so nicely."

What exactly does that mean? Is it like "hitting the nail on the head", or different? [END QUOTE]

But it does not justify what those kids did.

The article states that he was never a racist. Yet he was made to look like one. And he never wore a shirt that stated "Blacks must die". If he did, then, yes, he may have been "Asking for it". But it STILL doesn't make those kids any less liable for the beating.

So fine. Let's get rid of the Confederate Flag because it is a symbol of slavery. While we're at it, let's get rid of the Japanese flag because it is a symbol of savagery inflicted by the Japanese during WWII. Let's get rid of the Chinese flag because it is a symbol of oppression and the Tiennamen Massacre. And gosh darn it, let's get rid of the Canadian Flag because it is a symbol of annoyance to the American people (damn Canadians).

The Only exception is the Nazi Flag. Reason being is that it was the brainchild of the Party itself. The Confederate flag was the brainchild of the colonists living in North America long before the Civil War, and to what I have heard, long before the US existed. I don't think that the Confederate Flag was intended to represent slavery.

And yes, I do understand how the Blacks feel about the flag. It will take time for all the pain inflicted in the past 300 years to subside.