posted
Yes, Infinity, we all know where the Urals are. He was joking.
We actually have teachers' unions down here. They suck, too. They seem to oppose any and all attempts at standardized testing, and thus seeing what (and whether) the kids actually learn. Unions as a concept = good idea. Most unions in practice = sucks.
Up here in Ontario that is. They are very ignorant about the fact that there are many unqualified teachers in our public education system, and any attempt to remove one of them results in EXTREME opposition.
Union Solidarity forever. The Fights between the Unions and the Government are causing all sorts of problems.
I've heard a remark that Ontario is the only place where Teachers are unionized.
Please excuse my spelling. It's genetic. LOL
Possibly. My mom is part of the school faculty down here in Georgia, and union is a 4 letter word down here. The lack of one is causing huge problems down here.
On the Austin Roads show (A local talk radio show) A nurse called up and started bitching on how teachers have it so easy. She gave examples like: (1) A teacher's work day is only from 8 AM to 4 PM. (2) A teacher gets 3 months off every year with pay.
A couple of minutes later an actual teacher called up and roasted the nurse alive. A teachers day does NOT go from 8 AM to 4 PM. Teachers down here usally have to get to school by about 7 AM to prepare for classes and they usally stay untill 5 to 5:30 PM to grade papers and so forth. I don't have to mention that many teachers have to bring there work home with them too. The teacher that was talking in paticular stated that she sometimes had to take her work home with her and continue working on it untill 10:30 PM. This is something I can confirm because my mother sometimes has to do that.
Then there is this bullshit that teachers get 3 months off every summer. Here, it's only a 8 weeks and a couple of days. Teachers DON'T get payed for this time.
Also our Govonor, Roy Barns, in all his infinite wisdom got rid of teacher tenure and shot down a proposal for raising a teachers pay by 10%. Also, a teachers performance in his/her occupation is measured by his/her students grades. This totally screws the teacher over and I'll tell you why. Should a teacher suffer the misfortune of getting a class that is composed of idiots and ass holes who have no interest in learning he/she will look bad because of it. Unfortunatly, classes like that aren't that hard to find in Georgia.
One more thing. You guys are gonna love this. My local newspaper, The Augusta Chronicle, did a little article on a teachers salery. It compared the salery of a teacher to those of a store clerk, burger flippers at McDonalds and other low position jobs. This made it look like teachers have a kick ass salery. In turn, it supported the idea that teachers have it so easy.
On an semi-related topic, if you come down to Georgia you will notice that very few schools are 2 or more stories. In Augusta, it appears that these pre-fab type schools are popular. The problem is that these schools are built so that everything is on one floor. This makes the school wide and......well....large. When overpopulation becomes a problem, the school doesn't have any room to expand. If they would only make their schools 2 or 3 stories tall, not only would the school take up less land, they would have room to expand if need be. I also like to say that I've seen some of these prefab schools. They look like rundown offices from the 80s with very few of the roof tiles unstained. I won't even describe the bathrooms to you. DAMN IT! I'm being long winded again aaren't I? I'll stop now.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Omega:
They seem to oppose any and all attempts at standardized testing, and thus seeing what (and whether) the kids actually learn
Why oppose it in the first place?
Lawyers have to take tests every year to ensure they do a good job and maintain their lawyer's licence.
Accountants have to take test every year to ensure they do a good job and maintain their accountant's licence.
Doctors have to take test every year to ensure they do a good job and maintain their Doctor's licence.
Insurance Salesmen have to take test every year to ensure they do a good job and maintain their Insurance licence.
Real Estate Salesmen have to take test every year to ensure they do a good job and maintain their Real Estate licence.
A Teacher's position is, and should be treated as, a specialized position. Specialized positions require specialized testing.
MIB
A couple of minutes later an actual teacher called up and roasted the nurse alive. A teachers day does NOT go from 8 AM to 4 PM. Teachers down here usally have to get to school by about 7 AM to prepare for classes and they usally stay untill 5 to 5:30 PM to grade papers and so forth. I don't have to mention that many teachers have to bring there work home with them too. The teacher that was talking in paticular stated that she sometimes had to take her work home with her and continue working on it untill 10:30 PM. This is something I can confirm because my mother sometimes has to do that.
I understand and respect the things some teachers do to get their work done. Some governments do not. Especially in Ontario.
Also, a teachers performance in his/her occupation is measured by his/her students grades. This totally screws the teacher over and I'll tell you why. Should a teacher suffer the misfortune of getting a class that is composed of idiots and ass holes who have no interest in learning he/she will look bad because of it.
I bet even Omega would agree that Testing is the best way to gauge a Teacher's performance.
One more thing. You guys are gonna love this. My local newspaper, The Augusta Chronicle, did a little article on a teachers salery. It compared the salery of a teacher to those of a store clerk, burger flippers at McDonalds and other low position jobs. This made it look like teachers have a kick ass salery. In turn, it supported the idea that teachers have it so easy.
Should they be paid even less? A Teacher is, and should be treated as a specialized position of sorts. And a specialized position should not earn any less then a burger flipper, store clerk, or other low paying jobs. This is just a pure bad comparison.
[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: Tahna Los ]
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
posted
Someone asked my history teacher if it was his inteded career to be a high school teacher. He replied: "Do I look like a loser to you? I'm stuck in this place until I get my PhD, when that moment comes, you're all gonna get 100% on the exam as a goodbye present from me, and then, I'm outta here!" This was his actual reply, he didn't get his PhD yet, but he did give me 100% on the exam, not sure what he gave the others.
-------------------- Me- Hi Jen! What's up! Jen- You again??!?! Listen kid, I'm not interested in you. Stop bothering me, I'm a lot older than you and I have a boyfriend. How did you find my ICQ number anyways? Me- Oh, so just cuz you're a movie star now, and you're new album made millions, you think you're too good for me? Jen- Yes!!! Get it thorough your head! I am a person, I am not Jennifer Lopez the hottest woman on earth that everyone wants to sleep with, I'm a person, leave me alone!!! Me- Fine! Be that way! Me- Jen.... Where'd you go.... I love you... please come back.... please....
Registered: Mar 2001
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MIB
Ex-Member
posted
I bet even Omega would agree that Testing is the best way to gauge a Teacher's performance.
I agree that teachers should be tested to see if they do their jobs, but the way it is now, down here at least, a teacher's performance is rated by a student's performance. As I said before, if you get a class filled with nitwits, the teacher can be screwed big time. And a class filled with nitwits isn't hard to come by in Georgia.
posted
Forgive my ignorance of the US education system, but...
You take exams in the second last year of high school right? And those exams affect what college you can go to, right? Are those exams not standard over the whole country? If someone has a B (or whatever) at History at one school, would that be different to a B in History at another school?
Does the same thing apply to universities?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
posted
You're forgivin. Hell. I have lived in America all my life and even I don't get our own education system much less any other American system.
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posted
The faults of the US education system can be traced to several sources:
1. Social Engineering - That is, the supposition that schools ought to teach 'morals,' 'values,' and 'self-esteem', rather than reading, science, math, geography, art, literature, etc.
2. Non-teachers in leadership positions (which is the main cause of #1.) You will find that the higest posts among the folks who determine our education curricula are almost NEVER career teachers. Rather, they tend to be sociologists, union leaders, psychologists, politicians, and other people whose jobs have very very little to do with what teachers in the classroom actually face. They are out-of-touch.
3. Parental / student apathy. It is next to impossible to teach someone who isn't interested in learning... beyond when the next N'Sync album is coming out, who's gonna be the WWF champion, or what Pokemon card is hot today. Similarly, long experience has shown that parental participation in a child's education (from making sure they do their homework, to helping them with it, to actually GOING to parent-teacher conference day) is essential to their growth. Most parents who 'get involved' today are either denying something that their child did wrong "my Bobby would NEVER do that" (despite evidence to the contrary) or doing something idiotic like trying to get the Harry Potter books taken out of the school library.
4. "Mainstreaming." I'm all for 'fairness,' but let's face it. All kids are NOT equal. Teach to the top, and the middle and bottom kids get left behind. Teach to the middle, and the kids on top lose interest and the kids on the bottom get left behind. Teach to the bottom, and the middle kids lose interest and the top kids... forget them, they're gone. It doesn't help their self-esteem to be mashed together like that.
posted
All Americans who want to go to university also have to take the SAT isn't it?
And I do think that is a standardized test.
-------------------- "George Washington said, 'I cannot tell a lie.' Richard Nixon said, 'I cannot tell the truth.' Bill Clinton said, 'I cannot tell the difference.'"
-- comedian TOM SMOTHERS, from his latest stage act with brother DICK SMOTHERS.
quote:Originally posted by BlueElectron: All Americans who want to go to university also have to take the SAT isn't it?
And I do think that is a standardized test.
It never used to be like that. As a matter of fact, universities are starting to lower the SAT requirments if not get rid of them completly because they are finding that a persons SAT score really does not accuratly predict who will be more likely to perform well in college.
posted
The SAT I, or the Scholastic Aptitude Test, is standardized for all students in the entire United States and territories, however as far as I know, it is not produced by the government, but rather by a private organization.
The two subjects covered on the SAT I, math and english, are each graded on a scale of 800 points, making a total maximum grade of 1600.
The PSAT is the Pre- or Preliminary SAT which many sophomore and juniors take as "practice" for the real thing.
The SAT II's are subject specific, and at least three, (one math, one science, and the writing), are required to be accepted into many high-level colleges.
New Yorks State, the state which I am unfortunate enough to reside in, is the only state that mandates standardized Regents Competency Tests for specific subjects.
On the topic of teacher's unions, this is another thing New York State is lucky enough to be blessed with *rolls eyes*. Our local teacher's union is the strongest in lower New York, and our teachers are the best paid in all districts of the said region.
That is not to say that I don't think they should be well paid. Teachers are as valuable to the well being of the world and it's future generations as any other person, and I think they should be paid much more for what they do. However, I also think they should be better trained and monitored.
-------------------- "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
quote:Originally posted by First of Two: The faults of the US education system can be traced to several sources:
1. Social Engineering - That is, the supposition that schools ought to teach 'morals,' 'values,' and 'self-esteem', rather than reading, science, math, geography, art, literature, etc.
2. Non-teachers in leadership positions (which is the main cause of #1.) You will find that the higest posts among the folks who determine our education curricula are almost NEVER career teachers. Rather, they tend to be sociologists, union leaders, psychologists, politicians, and other people whose jobs have very very little to do with what teachers in the classroom actually face. They are out-of-touch.
3. Parental / student apathy. It is next to impossible to teach someone who isn't interested in learning... beyond when the next N'Sync album is coming out, who's gonna be the WWF champion, or what Pokemon card is hot today. Similarly, long experience has shown that parental participation in a child's education (from making sure they do their homework, to helping them with it, to actually GOING to parent-teacher conference day) is essential to their growth. Most parents who 'get involved' today are either denying something that their child did wrong "my Bobby would NEVER do that" (despite evidence to the contrary) or doing something idiotic like trying to get the Harry Potter books taken out of the school library.
4. "Mainstreaming." I'm all for 'fairness,' but let's face it. All kids are NOT equal. Teach to the top, and the middle and bottom kids get left behind. Teach to the middle, and the kids on top lose interest and the kids on the bottom get left behind. Teach to the bottom, and the middle kids lose interest and the top kids... forget them, they're gone. It doesn't help their self-esteem to be mashed together like that.
Damn. You are good. Would you mind if add something?
5. Teachers have had almost all disiplinary rights striped away from them. If a teacher so much as tries to punish a student for acting like an ass or something like that, the student's parents are going to be on the teachers case so damn quick!
6. The zero tolorance policy is becoming one of the largest disruptions in a childs learning. I hear stories about how a little girl got suspended for having a Tweety bird key chain in her possesion with which the chain was like an inch too long. I heard another report about how a young boy got suspended for drawing a picture of his father with a knife in his hand. His father was in the military.
posted
Joking, me, joking, you gotta be pullin' my leg....
I thought the ACT was more, mmm, not important, but accepted as the an entrance exam....
I have never even heard of ACT is short for.... Academics Competency Test???
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
posted
No, I don't mind if you add those two points, as they are also true, although I consider your #5 to be mostly a subset of my #3 point and your #6 to be largely a subset of my #1.
The point is, most of these things aren't the teachers' fault.
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