capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
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I cant believe this silly article has a thread to which i am starting the second page of!
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
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Care to tell us why you think the article is silly? Or did you simply post for the heck of it, to express your amazement at this remarkable fact?
Registered: Nov 1999
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
I basically agree with Templar and First of Two about this one, reading their first two posts.
Registered: Sep 2001
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RE: the article's contention that Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War are all signs of American weakness (or, as the author put it "one loss and two draws).
B*LLSH*T!
We won all three on the battlefield. Our military did all we asked of it and more. Our "loss" in Vietnam was purely a diplomatic/morale one. Our national leadership simply wimped out. There would have been a price to pay, but we could have taken the war to the NVA and cleaned it's clock. Our "draws" were not due to our inablility to win victory through arms, but our short-sided decision to allow pressure from our so-called "allies" to stop us from finishing the job. We could have taken Korea, and we d*mn sure could have taken Iraq, and we should have.
If we'd fought WW II under the political environment we have today, we'd've stopped as soon as the Germans retreated back behind their borders. God knows WHAT kind of horror might've ensued if THAT had happened.
As for the contention that we are just "training" a new generation of Moslems to hate the west, I have a clue for you all: they don't need training to do that. It is ingrained in their religion and culture. I've seen too many expose shows and read too many articles from experts on Islam to believe any differently. Remember what happened over there on 9/11...they were dancing in the streets! Our liberal media only showed us a FRACTION of the jubilation that was going on.
We should stand full strength behind Israel, our only REAL ally in the Middle East, and prepare ourselves for the greatest challenge of our age: ending Arab/Islamic agression once and for all time. They (the Arabs) have sown the wind, now let them reap the whirlwind...!
Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:As for the contention that we are just "training" a new generation of Moslems to hate the west, I have a clue for you all: they don't need training to do that. It is ingrained in their religion and culture. I've seen too many expose shows and read too many articles from experts on Islam to believe any differently. Remember what happened over there on 9/11...they were dancing in the streets! Our liberal media only showed us a FRACTION of the jubilation that was going on.
We should stand full strength behind Israel, our only REAL ally in the Middle East, and prepare ourselves for the greatest challenge of our age: ending Arab/Islamic agression once and for all time. They (the Arabs) have sown the wind, now let them reap the whirlwind...!
Oh yes its in THEIR religion, since we all know Christians respect everyones beliefs and would never go on any crusades to impose their will on Islam. Christianity isnt the type of religion that would inspire such hatred towards another religion
Oh brother.
quote: Arab/Islamic agression
Oh yes since we all know the United States Military doesnt have any units deployed in their holy land like Saudi Arabia or anything.
The situation in the Middle East is WAY to complicated to solve by this pig headed attitude of "give them hell" Unfortunatly people seem to think that since the US is at the " top " they can afford to make enemies. I'm pretty sure you wont be thinking the same way when your paying $5.50 a gallon at the pump.
The days of a war like World War 2 are over unfortunatly it took Vietnam to learn that.
Vietnam was a blunder at the higher echelons of command. We went in there with such a broad brush that by the time our grunts were fighting the NVA we still didn't have a clear plan or steps towards victory. The game plan seemed to be concentrated around the poker game that was being played at the peace table.
We had the leadership at the top yelling down the line towards Nam that they were hitting to hard. You can only pull a punch so much.
-------------------- My Mother never found the irony in calling me a son of a bitch
Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Oh yes its in THEIR religion, since we all know Christians respect everyones beliefs and would never go on any crusades to impose their will on Islam. Christianity isnt the type of religion that would inspire such hatred towards another religion
The point is, Penguin, that after 500+ Plus years, we [Western Civilization] have FORGOTTEN about the Crusades. They don't MATTER anymore. The muslims seem to think they're STILL GOING ON.
And it should be noted... Islam wasn't exactly spread at flowerpoint now, was it? They invaded Europe by at least two routes (Up through the Balkans and across the Straits of Gibraltar)
We were INVITED to Saudi Arabia by the government. If some fundie muslim has a problem with that, their fight should be with the Saudis, not us.
quote:I'm pretty sure you wont be thinking the same way when your paying $5.50 a gallon at the pump.
Oh, please. This threat predates ME. Besides, the Brits are paying nearly that much already, and they're still using gas.
But no, we probably won't think that way. The general attitude, should that happen, will more likely be that it would be in our interest to secure the Arabian oilfields for ourselves, and to hell with what a bunch of arrogant thugs thinks. Or in the parlance of the last energy crisis: "Nuke their ass and TAKE the gas!"
Either that, or we'll finally get off our butts and develop solar, thus reducing the middle east to a much-deserved irrelevancy.
Either way's fine, although I personally prefer the latter option by a smidge.
[ July 13, 2002, 10:49: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Which reminds me--anyone have any idea how much a kit to convert your car from gas to hydrogen costs, & how much work is entailed? I'd love to tank up with water if I could.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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Look at all the empires that have come and gone in recorded history... Just last century watched several fall apart, the U.K. and the U.S.S.R being two of them....
A time will come when the U.S. is either a shrunken image of itself, or non-existant... But I don't see it anytime soon. Look at how many nations were split apart by ethnic, religious, or political ideology, or in the U.K.s circumstance, being trimmed down by World War II.
Terrorist attacks won't make the U.S. split into several countries, after 9-11 there wasn't a lot of anti-Arab activity, like there could have been, so even the ethnic/religious divider isn't suited to the U.S. This leave a world war, which is nukes are tossed about, will make several countries split into smaller kingdoms....
The American way of life did change after 9-11, in some cases it was a severe change, in others not much... Hell, my life changed very little, before and after I am still scratching out on a mere survival level.... The points of view, on how the average American citizen is looking at life from beside the watercooler, from the people of other nations is blinded.... As has been pointed out by these same people on how Americans view their condidtions and place words in their mouths... The foot is on the other shoe I see.... (intentional reversal)
The Charlei daniels band has a good song for people to listen to... I con't remember the name right off hand... But it is something allong the lines that we may fight amongst ourselves, but you outsiders best leave us alone, 'cause we will forego our fight to kick your ass....
The eagle may be flying low/slow... is also from the song....
oh well....
keep the population down, make war, not love....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Ritten: or in the U.K.s circumstance, being trimmed down by World War II.
Apparently we're finally going to pay back to US for WWII in 2006.
On the subject of Vietnam the US won on the battlefields, destroyed the Viet Cong and smashed the NVA. Unfortuneately they were constrained by the lack of political will and of an overall plan. The US military and politicians cocked up. But you must remember that at the time, the US was virtually falling apart and there were very real fears of a revolution.
On the subject of Islam/Christianity; both religions have fought in the past. Both have fought expansionist wars. The main difference is that Muslims are a minority in most Western countries and so it is politically incorrect to mention the Islamic wars of agression. Violence is not, however, ingrained in either of the religions. Many Islamic fundementalists believe that their way of life and religion is under threat from western culture. The US is the leading western state and so the most obvious target.
On the other hand, look at the fall of the USSR; no one could have predicted it even one or two years before. The United States will decline. But not yet. Probably.
Having the best equipped military in the world is no guarenteeor of survival either.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Shik: Which reminds me--anyone have any idea how much a kit to convert your car from gas to hydrogen costs, & how much work is entailed? I'd love to tank up with water if I could.
Dunno, but it sounds expensive. Maybe you should consider buying an entirely new enviro-car instead.
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by twathead_fuck1: RE: the article's contention that Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf War are all signs of American weakness (or, as the author put it "one loss and two draws).
B*LLSH*T!
Here we go, the "dog ate my homework" version of history. . .
quote:We won all three on the battlefield. Our military did all we asked of it and more. Our "loss" in Vietnam was purely a diplomatic/morale one. Our national leadership simply wimped out. There would have been a price to pay, but we could have taken the war to the NVA and cleaned it's clock. Our "draws" were not due to our inablility to win victory through arms, but our short-sided decision to allow pressure from our so-called "allies" to stop us from finishing the job. We could have taken Korea, and we d*mn sure could have taken Iraq, and we should have.
Oh, please. D*mn? Well, g*sh. Cr*k*y. I'm sure you won Vietnam "on the battlefield," but that might have something to do with them thar little yellow sunsabitches not turning up to said battlefield, but instead waging a guerilla war, curse them. And. . . "short-sided decision?" There's a joke about long-haired draft-dodgin' hippies in there somewhere. And all us "so-called allies," well ever since you let us apparently tell you what to do, you've so been our bitch.
quote:If we'd fought WW II under the political environment we have today, we'd've stopped as soon as the Germans retreated back behind their borders. God knows WHAT kind of horror might've ensued if THAT had happened.
I often worry that I bring up the Nazis too often in my posts, and now I see why. It's really annoying. Oh, no! The war might have stopped too soon! That might have made it, given your late entry, all of about 18 months long. Disastrous!
quote:As for the contention that we are just "training" a new generation of Moslems to hate the west, I have a clue for you all: they don't need training to do that. It is ingrained in their religion and culture. I've seen too many expose shows and read too many articles from experts on Islam to believe any differently. Remember what happened over there on 9/11...they were dancing in the streets! Our liberal media only showed us a FRACTION of the jubilation that was going on.
The prophet Mohammed's warning to the faithful that one day a country then not discovered would become their greatest enemy is my favourite bit of the Koran. And I skip the bits that mention tolerance to others, he was obviously lying when he wrote it. And you like expos� shows, do you? All those aliens and Bigfoot, they're probably tied in somehow, only the "liberal media" doesn't want us to know about it, man. Christ, do you morons have a checklist you follow when you post here? "General cluelessness on world politics. . . check. Mention liberal media. . . check."
quote:We should stand full strength behind Israel, our only REAL ally in the Middle East, and prepare ourselves for the greatest challenge of our age: ending Arab/Islamic agression once and for all time. They (the Arabs) have sown the wind, now let them reap the whirlwind...!
Oooh. Never mind that part of the whole antipathy against the US in the region has a lot to do with the fact that the US is an ally of Israel at all. And that's a telling phrase there, Arab/Islamic. Not all Arabs are followers of Islam, not all Muslims are Arab. You planning to wipe them all out? Sorry, "reap the whirlwind" rather.
quote:Originally posted by darkwing_duck1: We should stand full strength behind Israel, our only REAL ally in the Middle East, and prepare ourselves for the greatest challenge of our age: ending Arab/Islamic agression once and for all time. They (the Arabs) have sown the wind, now let them reap the whirlwind...!
First, I stand corrected. Before reading this thread, I had claimed to a friend that Warcraft III had some incredibly cheesy lines, and that no real person would ever talk in such a fashion. I was wrong.
Second, even assuming that you're right and you "should" attack the Arabs, what exactly makes you think that applying the US military would be anymore successful than decades of Israel trying the same thing, and still ending up with suicide bombers?
Third, there's some irony in the fact that a third of the posts in this thread are trying to make the claim that the US military can "kick anyone's ass," when the very point of the article is that pure military force is irrelevant. Whether you agree with his point that some other country will eventually overtake the US ideologically or economically, debating about the "true state" of the military is just....quaint and not entirely useful.
From Shik:
quote: Which reminds me--anyone have any idea how much a kit to convert your car from gas to hydrogen costs, & how much work is entailed? I'd love to tank up with water if I could.
No idea if such a kit even exists. You'd have to replace the entire engine and much of the car's infrastructure supporting it. In the mean time, there are neat stop-gaps like Ars Technica: Honda Insight
From Sol System:
quote: Most Muslims are Southeast Asians, as it turns out.
Actually, I was wondering about that the other day. Do you actually have any statistics on that? Say the population of Muslims in China, Thailand, Indonesia, etc. bs. the Middle East.
I wonder how the Chinese media thinks about the whole situation, since they probably don't really like the Muslim population in western China either. Or are they simply bemused that the US is having such a tough time dealing this?
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: I'm sure you won Vietnam "on the battlefield," but that might have something to do with them thar little yellow sunsabitches not turning up to said battlefield, but instead waging a guerilla war, curse them
Not entirely accurate; the Viet Cong (the South Vietnamese communist guerrilas) were effectively wiped out in the 1968 Tet Offensive. After that most of the battles were between the NVA and US army/marines. The Americans did win most of these but basically were suckered into believing that North Vietnam would stand by the peace accords.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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