posted
I really DID like "Endgame" as a story, but as usual the Voyager writers can't resist beating the dead horse just a few more times.
Now, if the Borg had this magical "transwarp hub" that could send ships pretty much anywhere in the galaxy, then why haven't they spread throughout the galaxy like a plague, and assimilate every civilization in the entire Milky Way? Why have they sent only two cubes towards Earth in the past ten years, when it's obvious that they could send an entire fleet any time they chose?
And a related question -- is this the actual end of the Borg? There are some pros and cons to that POV:
The End: Admiral Janeway managed to destroy the Borg Queen and Unimatrix One itself. Her attack clearly disrupted the collective far beyond that little room. The Queen was unable to contact some of the Borg ships (she was pleased when ONE sphere could "hear" her). Furthermore, the destruction of the Unimatrix was very similar to the destruction of all the Borg at the end of "First Contact" -- the controlling entity (the Queen) was destroyed/removed, and thus all the other Borg ceased to function. (In the Collective, anyway.) And on top of that, the Queen was not seperated from the Collective this time, like she was in "First Contact" and "Dark Frontier." She was still in the heart of the Collective, the central processor so to speak.
Not the End: On the other hand, maybe the Borg are a bit more adaptable than that. The Collective, by its very nature, is decentralized. The destruction of one Unimatrix and (one/the) Queen is certainly a big problem, but it's not a problem that can take out the entire Collective. As always, they will adapt. There is most likely more than one Queen, or at least more than one manifestation of the Queen, as the entity that "controls" the Collective.
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Jeez, this is turning into a deeper discussion on the Borg than I thought. I suppose it depends on just how "decentralized" you think the Borg are. I could use my computer as an analogy -- the Queen could be the equivalent of the processor chip, that which "brings order to chaos." Without that chip, the entire computer will not work. But on the other hand, the Queen could be the equivalent of some other little component that regulates the flow of data and the functions that the computer performs, and something that the computer can manage without by bypassing its operations.
The thing is, way back in "First Contact," the Queen commented, "You imply a disparity where none exist. I am the Collective." But the Queen has already been killed at least once, maybe twice (depending on your interpretation of the ending of "Dark Frontier"). Maybe it's as simple as the computer monitor-- when one blows out, you get another one. But at the same time, the Queen has shown the ability to control the Collective, as if directing its actions. So, is the Queen a manifestation of the Collective, its "face," or is the Queen merely its primary "node"?
Sheesh, now we're talking about philosophy...
I'll stop now and let some other people cash in on this subject.
posted
My personal theory is that the Queen manifests when the collective deems it necessary. She has the advantages of individuality. However, the idea that all drones under her jurisdiction are DEPENDENT upon her, even to the point of the destruction of such a major facility, is NOT Borg. They would not be that centralized. Voyager's totally screwed up the Borg.
------------------ "How do you define fool?" "I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination." - CJ Cherryh, Invader
posted
it was said that the hub and the destruction of the unicomplex was a result of the death of the queen becuase as 7 said the queen is directly linked to these structures.....this means that the borg everywhere else is fine---the very fact that the sphere didn't just blow up, prooves that borg everywhere may not hear that particular queen no more but other then that they are just fine and dandy.
as for the HUB thingy---there were 6 of them!!!! so the borg are now 5/6th the power they use to be--not dead or trapped in the delta qaudrent.
[This message has been edited by TheF0rce (edited May 25, 2001).]
But personally, Starfleet advance from a organization that get their collective asses kicked to a small fleet of ships that destroyed the "headquarter" of Borg in a period of few decedes sounded very corny to me.
I mean, come on, using a reference from the beginning of TNG to the end of DS9, just how far has the Fed advanced? And they're trying to sell the idea that all of a sudden, Feds are able to do "one on one" with Borg?
Not to mention that they assume the Borg has no tech. advances during this period of time.
------------------ What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend? - With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
[This message has been edited by BlueElectron (edited May 25, 2001).]
posted
we don't know how useful the fed new weapon tech is against borg of the same time period which i imagine would resemble the borgs in "drone"
you can't really compare the two and said the feds are way too powerful---its like sending a musket back in time to bow and arrow day....one guy probably can use the mucket to lay hell to alexander's army given the fact that he had a fast hand-good aim-and alot of ammunition.
but a musket in its original time period would not be as deadly
posted
I would see how "travel back in time" would make a little more sense.
But still, we were led to believe that the Borg is at least couple century more advance then Feds, so even if Voyager do travel couple decades back in time, wouldn't the Borg still have the "home-field" advantages technology wise?
------------------ What is the difference between a terriorist and your girlfriend? - With terrorist, there is a chance of negotiation.
posted
Also now the Federation is now invincible with Voyager's armor upgrades. For those of you who saw the episode a shuttle took mulitple hits from 2 Negh'Var class ships without damage, so 26 years earlier Starfleet has the power to destroy ships without much damage.
The destruction of the Queen is just like First Contact. The Borg probably have a backup "Queen" or memory just in case something like that happens. The Borg aren't completely destroyed only UNimatrix One and the Queen.
------------------ The whole concept of Survivor is get your average Joe and put him/her on the show and see how they react. Afterwards even though they did not win they make money by appearing on shows. There is no point in having to win a million dollars! They will make that amount in 2 months after appearing on 100 different shows!
posted
As soon as Voyager made it out the end of the transwarp conduit, Future Janeway will have never existed to go back and give that tech to Voyager, tell them to go back to the nebula, get assimilated, and kill the Queen with the virus.
So as soon as Voyager made it out the end of the transwarp conduit, it should have "popped back" to where they were just before Future Janeway's temporal rift formed, with no memory of events that had never occurred in the first place. It's a self-terminating time loop.
This is why time travel gives me nosebleeds.
And one of the reasons I wish Trek writers would quit diddling with it -- they've never gotten it right.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
ahh but she took a serum to counter the effects of tachyon particles right?? maybe that is the explanaiton why things future janeway did would still exsist in the new timeline.
And we still do not know what that chip in her head did. Maybe it does control the ship emotley but what if it also helped her toexsist in the past to effect its outcome without disaperaing?
posted
You can not go to the past in order to prevent events that have already occured and succeed. If you DID prevent the events, you would never have had any reason to have gone back in the first place. Time travel has to be used very carefully as a plot device, and this wasn't an example of that.
------------------ "How do you define fool?" "I don't attempt it. I wait for demonstrations. They inevitably surpass my imagination." - CJ Cherryh, Invader
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