posted
How good is this episode - it was just on here again tonight.
I've forgotten how much I loved Beverly episodes.
Just a little thing about the Bozeman - Soyuz class - retired over 80 years ago as of 2368.
There was always confusion as to the reason behind the causality loop - that it was the Bozeman that caused it - and that they themselves dragged the Enterprise into their own causality loop. Well - the truth started out easy to follow in the episode - but the final comments by Picard towards Bateson confuse the situation by having Picard insinuate that the Bozeman has been in it's own causality loop for the past 96 years.
WRONG Picard.
Geordi clearly states in the second-last loop that the Enterprise has been drawn in by the distortion by the Space-Time continuum. That is the Bozeman was always going to come through the temporal rift into the 24th century. They were never in a causality loop.
The ENTERPRISE was in a causality loop for 17.2 days - since they were pushed into one due to the Bozeman coming through and hitting them
Correction - the Bozeman WOULD have been in a causality loop - but not for 96 years only the 17.2 days since the E-D was in one.
OH! And How come the E-D nacelle gets blown to smithereens - while the Bozeman's nacelle(s) have NO damage occuring to them!?!
Good episode.
Anyone got a grab of the Bozeman's bridge - I know it's old-ish but how old?
And I think the year was 2272 or 2273 that the Bozeman was from - what does that correspond with in the TOS movie timeframe? I around which movie?
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: OH! And How come the E-D nacelle gets blown to smithereens - while the Bozeman's nacelle(s) have NO damage occuring to them!?!
I would assume that it was because someone dropped the ball in the VFX department. I mean, they have stock footage of a Miranda nacelle getting shattered. I know they couldn't use footage from TWOK, but they did at least have a starting point.
And another thing!
WHY did the explosion of the entire ship begin at the TOP OF THE SAUCER?! All the damage occured to the engines, so the explosion that destroyed the ship should have been centered in the secondary hull! GRRRR!!
-------------------- Like A Bat Out Of Hell...
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Did it? I do recall the E-D spinning out of control - at least in the last two times. 2nd last - you see the starfield move, the last explosion - you see it from the outside.
Maybe an explosion ripped through power conduits and the SIF was weakest at the top?
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I thought I was the only one with that interpretation! I'm glad someone else sees it as i do. You're right that the entire event took place over 17.4 days. The Bozeman came through the rift (and travelled through time) instantly, but with each explosion, the Bozeman was 'reset' and travelled through the rift again.
Did you mean bridge interior or exterior? The exterior is the Phase II series bridge with the dual turbofifts in the back.
Bateson reports the year is 2278, which according to the Trek Chronology, happens after the Motion Picture (2271) but before The Wrath of Khan (2285).
posted
Originally, there were plans to have Saavik on the ship. She would have been standing next to Bateson on the Bozeman bridge. Of course, if they'd stuck to the 2278 timeframe, it would've caused a major continuity error (a paradox even)
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
Originally also, it was supposed to be from the Enterprise-C's timeframe or thereabouts and the USS Bozeman was intended to be another class of starship with Ambassador Class design aesthetics. Apparently Rich Sternbach designed such a vessel but budgetary considerations had them opt for a simple existing model redress, so we never ended up seeing an Ambassador variant.
posted
Was that from that show? I thought the Ambassador era ship was for another episode and that it was a TOS era vessel they were hoping for for this episode??
BTW I meant the Bridge interior - it looked as if it had quite a high sloping ceiling (which fits that different bridge module) - and the aesthetics of it looked more TOS-ish Enterprise - i.e. Red railing 'picture screens' around the bridge. Would have been nice to have seen a TOS alien on that bridge!! I guess the TWOK uniforms are more well-known - but it would have been interesting to have TMP uniforms - even though they probably wouldn't be that flattering on Kelsey Grammer - or anyone for that fact.
They could have used another TOS actor instead of Saavik - Rand - no. Umm... Riley!?!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
IIRC, the Bozeman was supposed to be a TOS Constitution class with the TOS uniforms and bridge, but it was too expensive to rebuild the sets and the model. The Ambassador-era ship in question is probably the Pegasus from the titular episode, which was supposed to be a Cheyenne class relative.
And the bridge was just a simple redress of the Enterprise battle bridge/generic guest bridge set. Complete with LCARS-style Okudagrams, which are about a decade too early. Oh well.
Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I've forgotten how much I loved Beverly episodes.
One; it was a Beverly episode?
And two; you love Beverly episodes?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: OH! And How come the E-D nacelle gets blown to smithereens - while the Bozeman's nacelle(s) have NO damage occuring to them!?!
I would assume that it was because someone dropped the ball in the VFX department. I mean, they have stock footage of a Miranda nacelle getting shattered. I know they couldn't use footage from TWOK, but they did at least have a starting point.
And another thing!
WHY did the explosion of the entire ship begin at the TOP OF THE SAUCER?! All the damage occured to the engines, so the explosion that destroyed the ship should have been centered in the secondary hull! GRRRR!!
A better question is why the Bozeman is about 300% too large for a Miranda class variant in that shot? The Bozeman should total about 3/4 the Enterprise's nacelle length! (of course the real reason is the VFX dept using two models of differing scales in the same shot without resorting to a composite....) Look at the Miranda at the end of Generations to see the correct scale.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: One; it was a Beverly episode?
And two; you love Beverly episodes?
Technically, it could be. She played an important role in getting the plot advanced.
And what's wrong with Beverly episodes? You didn't like "The High Ground," "Remember Me," "Ethics," "Suspicions," or "Descent"? Just my opinion, but those were all standout episodes from TNG.
Registered: May 2002
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posted
Unfortunatly, DRAMATIC IMPACT wins out again over NITPICKISHLY ACCURATE. If a correctly scaled Miranda-type hit the Enterprise, it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad.
Actually, I'll be clearer. If a Miranda-variant flew straight into the Enterprise, it would look really, really cool. And it would be really, really expense. I wa impressed enough with the impact and explosion. To have the Bozeman crash into the Enterprise nacelle (or other area) and crumple properly would have involved building another model to blow up, and I think they'd already blown the budget doing a Galaxy class one.
Actually, a thought strikes me. Was it a custom built model they blew up? Or was it an AMT model? Or was it (maybe) the tiny two foot model used for distance shots in season 1 that I don't think was ever used again?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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