posted
I noticed a while ago in "Redemption, part II" that the specific dialogue used in the script pointed toward a Romulan informant within Starfleet. While this is all very likely, I was wondering if there's any clues as to who the informant was?
I'm referring to the line that Sela has when referring to disrupting the Tachyon Detection Grid. The Romulans notice the hole opening in the network and that the USS Sutherland is within the vulnerable zone. Sela's line was not to focus the disruption at that ship by name, but rather to direct the beam at "the ship with the Android captain."
How could she have known of Picard's last minute decision to assign Data to captain the Sutherland? My first guess was to suspect the informant was one of the two admirals at the episode's beginning, but then I started leaning toward it being Commander Hobson...the one who didn't like serving under an artificial captain.
posted
Perhaps the Romulans were simply monitoring the Fleet's communications or something similar to that. I doubt that anythign in the episode was meant to give them impression that there was a Romulan agent involved here.
Sela's knowledge that Data was in command of the ship has always seemed to be a bit unrealistic to me. And the explanation for how she got that knowledge was never worked out very well.
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Data took command at the spacedock. Who knows HOW long the trip from SB 234 to the border was. In that time, I'm sure the well-developed Romulan mole network relayed whatever information they could. Mentioning that Picard parceled out his senior staff to various ships is easy enough, along with who went where.
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posted
Their "mole" could also be a crewman on a sub-space relay.....not a lot of close supervision on them puppies as I recall.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
It's simple -- the Romulans were monitoring the fleet's communications. We saw Riker and Geordi on the viewscreen at one point, calling from the Excalibur. Doesn't it make sense that Data would have been at least mentioned in any message between the Enterprise and the Sutherland?
For instance, in today's combat situations, military intelligence can sometimes (or often) determine who the local commander of the opposing force is -- and the other side can sometimes tailor their own battle plans based on that knowledge.
I remember hearing a story a while back, about one of the battles in North Africa during World War Two. An Allied general was watching the German army, commanded by Field Marshall Rommel, as it maneuvered into battle. The general commented to himself, "Rommel... I read your book." As in, he knew that Rommel was the commander, and what his tactical background was, and could therefore anticipate the strategy. (I don't remember who the Allied general was, though, or in which specific battle that happened.)
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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Or at least, George C. Scott AS Patton in "Patton."
"Rommell, you magnificent bastard! I read your book!"
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Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
Hobson may have a problem with Data, but that would never be the reason he betrays starfleet. What about Geordi? Sela did this mind-probe thing with him just an episode earlier (to make him kill a Klingon ambassador, I think). Maybe she did something similar with someone else serving in that fleet and the poor guy didn't even know that he was forced to reveal secrets to the romulans from time to time. Maybe it was Geordi wo was still - to some degree - under the influence of that device (can't remember how that story ended though. It could be the device and everything were removed at the end or there wasn't even a device - which of course makes this theory more possible).
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posted
Ah... aren't Romulan sensors able to detect the lifeforms onboard Federation starships? I'd just scan who's onboad and find an android and figure out that Data is in command.
-------------------- "It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans." -Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
If the Romulans were monitoring Federation Channels, then it is more likely that they would have heard of the Federation's plan to trap the Romulans. Remember that Sela figured out the Federation's plan from the moment one of the ships left the formation.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
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Even if ship-to-ship communications revealed the whereabouts of Riker and LaForge, that wouldn't have helped in locating Data. His bridge had no viewscreen!
And whatever Patton knew about Rommel at Kasserine didn't amount to a tactical advantage. Or if that was tactical advantage, then I'd have hated to see Patton at a disadvantage!
OTOH, Montgomery at Alamein did set up a trap for Rommel specifically, knowing that the fox favored flanking attacks from the south. He put a big minefield there, left it seemingly undefended, but trained all his field pieces at it. And Rommel fell for it. Just goes to show that "great military leaders" aren't. Unless they can change style in mid-campaign.
I gather the Romulan spy network would be very interested indeed in the affairs of the starbase so close to their border. Yet the very appearance of the fleet seemed to come as a surprise to the Romulans, and its composition ("too small to be an invasion fleet") beduffled them for a long time. Perhaps Sela only got the crucial information after a delay - which is why she also engaged in the stalling maneuver of contacting Picard.
posted
...or mabye it was just another plot thread that TNG never got to follow up.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Maybe it wasn't a plot thread. She doesn't know Data. I'd go for the 'scanning for life-forms, those tiny little life-forms... where are you...' Thing - instead of listening to comm-traffic. We know that comm-traffic is Encrypted too, especially officer movement orders.
I chalk it down to 'scan ships' - oh one has an Android Captain... how? cause Sutherland on last report needed a captain - and the Android out-ranks the rest of the crew.
Not an important story line.
One thing I always wish was that they had Sela on DS9.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
it would have been soooo cool for the to have been the Romulan commander that was killed/replaced by the Founder during the bried Romulan-Cardassian alliance. ....at least then we'd have had some closure with the character.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: Even if ship-to-ship communications revealed the whereabouts of Riker and LaForge, that wouldn't have helped in locating Data. His bridge had no viewscreen!
Actually, the Sutherland bridge did have a viewscreen. Data used it at the end to show the 3 distortions that concealed the Wrabird's locations. He then sent the modified torpedoes to those locations. He was in the captain's chair looking forward as we were seeing the viewscreen, so it was at the front of the bridge right where it should be.
By the way, did anyone else notice the Sutherland bridge was a redress of the Star Trek VI Enterprise kitchen??
There were pots and pans in the alcove later converted to TV monitors for Data to use.
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
i doubt the Romulans extensively scanned the crew rosters of each ship in the armada to identify each crewmember-- its unnecessary. besides, their cloaks would prevent sensing of that accuracy,as established in many older episodes.
more than likely, they could at best overhear normal supspace chatter -- a simple message like
"Captain Picard to Sutherland. adjust course to 215 mark 3, Mister Data."
"Data commanding the Sutherland to Commander Riker on the Excalibur. Please adjust your subspace exhaust, you bloated gasbag. Was that not funny?"
More than likely the Romulans had dossiers on the Enterprise crew and could identify them by name, and Sela knew them from her mother's stories.
Why do we have to come up with a complicated explanation for a very simple plot point? Hasn't anyone ever heard of Occam's Razor?
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