posted
A post in another forum reminded me of the factoid that Gene Roddenberry considered "some aspects" of Star Trek VI to be non-canon. Does anybody know which, and why?
posted
Marian's right. The Chronology says that 'parts of Star Trek V and VI' were considered non-canon. Possibly the Operation: Retrieve part of VI. And V was just generally a crap movie.
posted
Well, a lot of GR's criticisms of V have to do with Shatner getting to do a God story when GR's own was rejected back in '75, plus he was pissed about how he was kept out of the loop on what the story was going to be until late in the process, after full scripts had been written.
So GR was more predisposed to hate V than was the case on the previous couple films, plus, after the release, it was popular to knock V anyway (at least for those of you who think the movie was about plot and continuity as opposed to being about the lead characters ... it's easy for me to let a lot of messed up issues in V ride simply because they really did the big 3 justice, which was a smart choice considering that IMO, they weren't doing such a good job telling sf stories ... by that point they were better off playing to the strengths that still were in evidence.)
As for the non-canon aspect on these movies, I'm pretty sure that the Okuda mention of it comes from Richard Arnold, since he was representing GR for a lot of issues (like reining in -- as in, "ruining" -- many novels and comics of that era.) That would include for TREK V the too-easily-reachable center of the galaxy (perhaps that contributes to the notion of decanonizing the Animated Series, since they went to the core in an episode of TAS as well) and Spock having a brother.
For TUC, there are lots of aspects he objected to. The story repeated in a couple of the tell-alls is that GR wanted something like 15 minutes of cuts, basically making humans less involved in the conspiracy, plus cutting way down on the racism in the lines. I can't imagine that if he'd lived more than the 36 hours he lasted after seeing TUC that he'd have raised a public stink over it, since he had plenty of opportunity to do that on V and didn't really bury it pre-release ... he'd have probably just sent his memo around for everybody to ignore or pay lip service to and that would have been that, pretty much how it went down anyway (I think the theatrical version with the cut 3 minutes might be a genuflection in GR's direction, since it trims conspiracy angle stuff and lessens human involvement in the conspiracy.)
GR had plenty of time to bitch about TUC before shooting even started ... Meyer walked out of a meeting with him when he started carping about Saavik (changed to Valeris) as traitor, and later on Meyer said GR didn't have a hand in creating Saavik and shouldn't have input on the character (kinda odd that Meyer didn't mind when Nimoy totally undermined his view of Saavik by retroactively making her full-vulcan and controlled when they recast for III, though, isn't it?)
I interviewed Meyer via phone the day after TUC was greenlit, and he was about as caustic and barbed as any interviewee I've ever come across ... at the time, it was practically a case of hero worship being dashed on the rocks, it really wiped me out. I never understood his 'tude till years later, when I realized he had been pretty much an emotional basket case from the beating-up he'd taken over getting the picture going, from GR and from the studio. Plus, according to one 'net acquaintance of mine who, it turns out, knew Meyer a bit socially back then, Meyer's wife died around this same time, so I guess if she was ill during this period that would definitely have messed with his mind some.
That interview also was a complete reversal from what I expected based on my conversations with somebody from his office, who set up the interview in response to a query letter I'd written to Meyer. The office person (I don't think it was Flynn at this point, but I'm not sure) said that Meyer had really enjoyed the letter -- I had written it in a kind of self-conscious style that echoed the formal way Meyer wrote some of CONFESSIONS OF A HOMING PIGEON, and I guess he picked up on that --and wanted me to come in THAT DAY to talk about Trek and maybe work as an assistant on the picture. He didn't realize I was living 400 miles away until I pointed that out, but this guy still seemed to think that Meyer would want me even if I took a leave of absence from the job I was at and came down ... nothing more ever was mentioned after the Meyer interview, and I don't know if I blew it during the interview or if by then Nimoy's kid had already been assigned that job (which was a good gig for him, since he built on that and wound up with an impressive TV directing career.)
Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:The Chronology says that 'parts of Star Trek V and VI' were considered non-canon.
Apocryphal, not non-canon.
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:The Chronology says that 'parts of Star Trek V and VI' were considered non-canon.
Apocryphal, not non-canon.
You're right there, but the references about TAS are, I'm pretty sure, including wording to the effect of it being decanonized. Not sure if that was in ST THE MAG or someplace else, though.
-------------------- Achievement is its own reward; pride obscures it.
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posted
I'm kind of grumpy about that. Parts of TAS are vastly more painful than "Spock's Brain", but there were enough good elements that the series as a whole did not and does not deserve to be "de-canonized" (however one does that -- this isn't the Catholic Church). "The Counter-clock Incident" and "Yesteryear" are actually really damn good, albeit too short, and the existence of the Caitians has been unofficially confirmed through Star Trek IV... Poor treatment all round.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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posted
Hadn't "Hikaru" been Sulu's unofficlal first name for years as that point? I'm sure it pops up in some of the 80s novels (along with "Nyota Uhura", to be sure).
I always wonder why Chekov was so special as to be the only one of the "small 3" to get a first name. And a middle name! Before McCoy!
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
Re: Meyer: Presumably the Star Trek VI special edition will have his commentary (unless his feelings towards it are still raw enough to preclude this). Should be interesting.
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
since 1979.. i believe i read that Roddenberry was consulted when "The Entropy Effect" was written as to his approval of thae name. he agreed.
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posted
So, racism and conspiracy by Federation members, and maybe Sulu's first name (got a source or a reference for that, FG?). Thanks for the information, everybody. I'd always wondered.
I guess I can see where GR's coming from, if his vision of the future was all about humanity having risen above that kind of thing. I wonder what he would have made of A. C. Crispin's novel "Sarek," if he'd lived to read it, since it put the blame on a Romulan plot using mental influence by Romulan-bred Vulcans.
Hmm, maybe Crispin knew about GR's objections and added that subplot to deliberately allay them...
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Ironic that VI is perhaps the movie containing very important pivotal events in the Trek History.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
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