quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: [QUOTE]Originally posted by kmart: [qb]Not to mention the shot is so stupidly composed that it actually adds a continuity problem to the film. We see the rebel ships level with Yavin IV directly behind them. The camera turns 180 degrees and we see the Death Star directly in front of them...which means it already has clear line-of-site of the moon. Ergo, the Death Star should have vaporized said moon before "Porkins" could say "Ham Sandwich standing by."
Another great example of why tampering after the fact often creates more problems than it solves.
Yes. Except that the problem was in the original as well, since we see the ships flying towards the camera away from Yavin IV, and then the camera changes to behind them, and we see the Death Star. Unless you are implying that there was a time jump in between those two shots while the ships flew around the gas giant.
Wasn't that the sort of shot that the movie makers originally wanted to do anyway?
And, seriously, what was detrimental to the SE of Empire? We see one alien in a costume that we never saw before. Woopee, since that's the worst part of the film anyway. And two CGI bits later on that you'd miss if you blinked.
And Jedi isn't a bad film. It's 40% bad film mixed with 60% excellence. Take out the opening 45 minutes, and I'd put it on par with Empire. And let's not forget, I am British, therefore I am right.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: Not to mention the shot is so stupidly composed that it actually adds a continuity problem to the film.
Yes. Except that the problem was in the original as well, since we see the ships flying towards the camera away from Yavin IV, and then the camera changes to behind them, and we see the Death Star.
Wrong. You don't see the moon behind the rebel fleet in the original film. You see: --View past gas giant towards Death Star...the flighters come into view --reverse angle of the fighters head-on...no moon
quote:And, seriously, what was detrimental to the SE of Empire?
--Pointlessly changing lines of dialogue, as as adding "Nowhere to land." after Threepio's "Ohhhhh, this is suicide!"
--Adding a scream when Luke drops away from Vader. Suddenly he's a sissy..."eeeeeeeee!"
--Crappily removing corridor walls and showing sky instead. Terrible lighting mismatches. Jumps right off the screen.
--Adding pointless shots of Vader going to his shuttle, his shuttle heading for the Star Destroyer, and landing, all of which break the tempo of the climax and add NOTHING to the film.
And other things I've forgotten since the one time I saw the Empire SE.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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--Adding a scream when Luke drops away from Vader. Suddenly he's a sissy..."eeeeeeeee!" __________________________________________________
That irks me more then anything else. They turned Luke's willing sacrifice to avoid joining the Darkside into a wussy "oops, I've fallen" moment. Not to mention they used the same scream from when Vader threw the Emporer down the airshaft in ROTJ. __________________________________________________
--Adding pointless shots of Vader going to his shuttle, his shuttle heading for the Star Destroyer, and landing, all of which break the tempo of the climax and add NOTHING to the film. __________________________________________________
And the fact that it is clearly not James Earl Jones doing the voice-over work there sucks too. It sounded like some bad Darth Vader impression by a guy talking into a cup.
Lucas needs someone around to just slap him every time he does something stupid. I think his cronies are too afraid to tell him some of his new ideas are goofy. He probably crushes their larynx with the force or something.
-------------------- "You must talk to him; tell him that he is a good cat, and a pretty cat, and..." -- Data "I will feed him" -- Worf (Phantasms)
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He's said as much in an interview -- that he's got a bunch of guys working for him that are afraid to tell him something's a bad idea. He cited Jar-Jar, saying that if even one person had said "Um, George..." the character would probably have ended up being realised very differently, if not omitted altogether.
My beefs with the Special Editions are mostly with the clumsy way the new footage has been cut in with the old. The film quality is different, for one thing. And the CGI is too "smooth", for another. Add to that the things that should have been fixed but weren't (many elements of the Jedi space battle, among other things), the things that were fixed but shouldn't have been (the cantina aliens, among other things), and the things that were added halfway (like changing the story to R2 getting away from the bog monster on his own, but not adding the CGI rockets, among other things), and you get some very halfassed efforts on the silver screen.
Jedi has always felt mediocre to me, anyway. The only part of that movie that enthralls me as much now as it did when I was nine is the stuff aboard the Death Star (and in, the reactor assault being my favorite part of the space battle). George should have done whatever it took to keep Irvin Kirschner on for the third movie. Richard Marquand's input really watered down the story.
--Jonah
P.S. They were supposed to be wookiees, dammit!
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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"that he's got a bunch of guys working for him that are afraid to tell him something's a bad idea. He cited Jar-Jar, saying that if even one person had said "Um, George..." the character would probably have ended up being realised very differently, if not omitted altogether."
So, he has surrounded himself with butt-snorkelers, yet blames them for not opposing his wackier ideas?
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
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quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: George should have done whatever it took to keep Irvin Kirschner on for the third movie. Richard Marquand's input really watered down the story.
I've seen little indication that Marquand had much input on the story (or even the direction, despite the credit -- this one seems very 'Tobe Hooper/Spielberg POLTERGEIST'.) Lucas was on the set during most of shooting of JEDI and was very hands-on, presumably because he was displeased with what happened when he wasn't around on EMPIRE (which should say something about his taste.)
I think it is GL's heavy hand that weighs down JEDI, not Marquand's. The latter's EYE OF THE NEEDLE was a pretty decent movie, and I saw nothing of that style or sophistication in JEDI. The funny thing is that GL offered this to David Lynch first! As if they'd have seen eye-to-eye -- can't imagine Lynch as director for hire (well, kind of on DUNE, but you can still feel his presence throughout that one.)
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Except that apparently, the part that Lucus stepped in to direct himself is the Darth/Luke/Emperor stuff at the end, the best part of the movie.
The added stuff of Vadar at the end was because one minute, he's on the planet, and another, he's on his ship, right? So, y'know, there is a reason. Visual clarification and all that.
And you're THAT angry over the windows in Cloud City? And Threepio saying "There's no-where to land"? How have you not had a heart attack already?
Personally, I was surprised they never fixed up some of the stop motion. The Walkers in Empire are okay-ish, but the tauntauns (sp?) really do look awful.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: And let's not forget, I am British, therefore I am right.
...???...
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
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Universal constant. All British people are right all the time, unless I disagree with them.
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Except that apparently, the part that Lucus stepped in to direct himself is the Darth/Luke/Emperor stuff at the end, the best part of the movie.
Lucas as director is just a guy trying to get lots of takes and film so he can cut -- he is a post-oriented guy, always was (which again begs the question, why did he interfere on JEDI, when it was clear that he had hired an actor-oriented director, a la Kersh? Only reason I can think is that it is due to his fear of running overbudget like EMPIRE.)
I don't think he has any affinity for directing actors ... from all the various accounts, I almost get the impression that the GRAFITTI actors were cast because they knew how to play the scenes w/o direction.
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quote:Originally posted by WizArtist: [QUOTE]Then how come the Brits go to "SHOOL" and drive "Jag-you-ares"?
Because we invented the language, therefore we know how to pronounce words correctly. Considering that roughly 130$ of Americans can't even say "Nuclear" without mucking it up, I'd keep quiet if I were you.
Although..."SHOOL"? What are you dribbling on about there? No-one pronounces it like that. Ever. Anywhere.
quote:Listen to the Brits.... they yell "Hear! Hear!" then they don't say anything.
I really would suggest reading more books and drinking less toilet cleaner.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: The added stuff of Vadar at the end was because one minute, he's on the planet, and another, he's on his ship, right? So, y'know, there is a reason. Visual clarification and all that.
Filmmaking 101: you don't have to show Joe Bob Skywalker driving home, opening the garage, parking the landspeeder, going to the front door and letting himself in. It's impled. Vader says, "Bring my shuttle," and next time he see him he's back on his Star Destroyer. What did showing the shuttle clarify, other that it was a Ford Prefect with the license number THX1138?
quote:And you're THAT angry over the windows in Cloud City? And Threepio saying "There's no-where to land"?
Pointless edits change elements for no entertainment or informative value are just bad filmmaking. I don't understand why you're defending it.
quote:Personally, I was surprised they never fixed up some of the stop motion. The Walkers in Empire are okay-ish, but the tauntauns (sp?) really do look awful.
I'd rather they fixed really obvious flaws. In Star Wars, for instance, there's the shot were you can see right through the head of the little rat monster in the Cantina (in one eye and out the other), and then there's the infamous bit where Kenobi lower his lightsabre and the light goers out and you can see thw bare rod. Bad bad bad...
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
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