posted
I figured I'd double-check with the experts on this one.
I've re-ordered my ST:TOS episode list, sorting by stardate. It seems to be a potentially valid way of understanding the series, with advantages such as showing Chekov prior to "Space Seed". There is one disadvantage, insofar as two early episodes with overlapping stardates . . . but this isn't necessarily a problem.
Anyway, I wanted to see if there were any other problems . . . none come to mind, but I wanted to be sure.
posted
Seeing as the show was actually made to be shown in random order (so as to help syndication), it wouldn't really matter terribly much. Except for "The Cage" and WNMHGB, which obviously should be episodes 0 and 1 because of the clearly different uniforms/sets/etc. But it seems to work out in SD order.
Of course, TOS stardates were never meant to make any sense whatsoever.
posted
Realistically, there are only a handful of continuity comments in TOS that require episodes to be put into a specific order. From memory, these are the only requirements when putting TOS episodes into any sort of order.
1/ "Mudd's Women" must occur before "I, Mudd".
2/ "Dagger of the Mind" has to be the first episode that Spock does a mind meld in front of McCoy.
3/ "Balance of Terror" has to be the first episode showing the Romulans.
4/ "Errand of Mercy" has to take place before "The Trouble With Tribbles".
5/ "What Are Little Girls Made Of" has to take place before "Operation - Annihilate!" (Reference to Kirk's brother would be weird if the order was reversed).
There are also a couple of references to past episodes in "Turnabout Intruder", but I can't remember them.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Actually, Harry, it was originally "meant" to indicate months and days into the five-year mission, but that was discarded early on when the reality of the airing order made itself known. So the latter two numbers of the stardates start climbing up well over 30, so you can see evidence of that. I tend to still go by that original explanation, though, as (and I include the animated series here) there are only three episodes higher than SD6000 -- which is five years. Those three are all animated adventures, though, and two of them could easily have taken place "on the way back to Earth". The last is "Bem", which is set on SD7403.6 -- or a year and two months after the end of the five-year mission by this system. I do, however, find "Bem" one of the weaker animated episodes, and have no problem fudging the numbers a bit (change the '7' to a '6', for example).
Treknically, the only significant problem is the alterations of sets and costumes. But since these problems are there pretty much no matter what (along with the mixed stock footage of the ship), I just say what the hell and enjoy the stories in a semblance of order.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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posted
Animated stardates are a bit wackier. "Magics of Megas-Tu" has a 13** stardate, which makes no sense in chronological order. Unless they travelled back in time. Which wouldn't be completely unbelievable in this already very strange episode.
posted
The big problem with stardate order is that the animated and live action episodes are intermixed, which isn't possible since the structure of the ship (turbolift shafts on the bridge, engineering) and the onboard technology (life-support belts, shuttles, etc.) were upgraded in the animateds, and there's the additional fact that the cast was different (Arex, M'Ress).
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Realistically, there are only a handful of continuity comments in TOS that require episodes to be put into a specific order.
Very nice! Add to the list #6: Kirk's mention to Spock regarding Eminiar VII (i.e. "A Taste of Armageddon") when they encountered the Kelvans ("By Any Other Name"[TOS]) . . . he had Spock try to use the same "make the guard think we escaped" trick.
3192.1 vs. 4657.5 . . . check.
Now, let's see how the list holds up:
quote:1/ "Mudd's Women" must occur before "I, Mudd".
1329 vs. 4513 . . . check.
quote:2/ "Dagger of the Mind" has to be the first episode that Spock does a mind meld in front of McCoy.
Uh-oh. "Patterns of Force" involves Spock doing something mind-meld-esque in front of McCoy. On the other hand, I've double-checked a TOS transcript of that episode and cannot find a reference to the stardate everyone quotes!
Until I get a chance to watch the ep on tape to determine the placement of 'Patterns', I think this issue should be put on hold.
quote:3/ "Balance of Terror" has to be the first episode showing the Romulans.
Check.
quote:4/ "Errand of Mercy" has to take place before "The Trouble With Tribbles".
3198.4 vs. 4523.3 . . . check.
quote:5/ "What Are Little Girls Made Of" has to take place before "Operation - Annihilate!" (Reference to Kirk's brother would be weird if the order was reversed).
2712.4 vs. 3287.2 . . . check.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Same story about "Patterns of Force" told above . . . seems that the stardate everyone uses (including startrek.com!) is a creation of the ST Concordance.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
quote:Originally posted by Spike: IIRC Uhura wears a gold uniform in the first three regular episodes after WNMHGB.
Was it three? I only remember it in "The Corbomite Maneuver". And going by air date order, she wears red in several episodes before that.
Besides, that's fairly easy to explain. Maybe she was taking some sort of command coure, and wore gold for the duration. Maybe the laundry had run out of red. Maybe comms people can wear either colour.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
I always thought Comms should be part of Command anyway. I mean, what the hell use is such a division if all it incorporates is Captain, First Officer and assorted Helmsmen (and Navigators when they had them)? Great. Now I'm going to start obsessively trying to recall every Gold-wearing (and Red-wearing, post-TNG) crewmember and what their jobs actually were. . .
posted
I'm sure there were a few red-shirted Navigators in TOS. That bloke who got hit by the happy stick on Landau's planet I seem to recall being a Navigator. Although I could be misremembering that from a comic book.
There's also the weird fact that when Kyle was subbing on the bridge in either helm or navigation (I forget which), he wore a red shirt instead of his usual gold.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: The big problem with stardate order is that the animated and live action episodes are intermixed
Might be why TAS isn't canon.
(runs away)
Since I'm too tired to debate this at the moment, and since you had the good sense to flee from the path of my vengeful rightiousness, you get off easy this time...
The truth of the matter is, there is only one most logical and sensical order to watch TOS shows in: the order in which they were filmed and produced. Why? Because that's the order they were filmed and produced in.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
So going by air-date order is crazy and mental then?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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