-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Were you the one who posted about the Cambridge study of how badly we can spell and still get our points across...?
Seriously, Nemesis flopped because Nemesis sucked and they released it against two non-sucky strong competitors. I'm embarassed to see Patrick and Brent were involved in the story process. I have said several times that my scriptwriting teacher told us to not just bitch about it if we didn't like a movie -- we should do a rewrite as intellectual exercise. Try and do better. And with Nemesis, I did. In three minutes I had a better story than what was filmed. To think they were proud of the shooting script makes me wince. Is this due to the corrupting influence of B&B? Has Gene been dead and gone so long that they've forgotten what their characters were about? Are they so disconnected from the Trek universe to not know when something is inconsistent with the "feel" they established with their seven-year TV series?
*sigh*
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: Has Gene been dead and gone so long that they've forgotten what their characters were about?
Considering what the characters were like during "Farpoint" and season 1, I should bloody well hope so.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Season 1 was a little painful, yes. Season 2 I loved most of. Even "The Child", if I ignore the A story and focus on the far more compelling B story about Wes. *heh*
But the rest of the series did a pretty good job of establishing who those characters were, and those definitions started going out the window as the movies dragged on. There was no character evolution, as such. Just Bizzaro versions of formerly familiar characters.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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All the time I sat watching Nemesis I kept thinking "Hellraiser meets Star Trek". B4 was a worthless plot twist as were the dune buggy scenes. Yes, I realize in exploration you are going to need a means of transportation but, heck, I would've rather seen them jetting around in Spock's gravity boots than that homage to Xtreme sports.
The marketing was terrible too. As was said earlier, you had seen most of the good stuff in the trailers. I had NO sense of danger or anticipation at the ending. It just didn't play well. This movie should have been released down a wormhole. It did nothing for Trek or any of the characters. It was billed as "A generation's final journey" but the ending was "And moving right along". So Data's dead, sorta, they could always find his parts and put him back together and Riker's getting his own ship. So what is everyone else doing the rest of their lives?
Trek needs an Insurrection to wipe out the First Contact with the ultimate Trek Nemesis....Berman/Braga
-------------------- I am the Anti-Abaddon. I build models at a scale of 2500/1
Registered: Aug 2003
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Oh, for fuck's sake. Give it a year and Trek fans will be blaming them for Sept 11.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Agreed - I mean watch seasons 3-6 and All Good Things... THAT is classic Trek and TV.
Yup. And it had almost nothing to do with Gene Roddenberry at all, and a fair amount to do with Rick Berman.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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More Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor. Rick Berman is a perfect TV mid-level executive producer. He's gotten to be where he is by being the perfect chameleon. He adopts the point of view of whoever he's talking to, so they think they've got a friend and ally. He doesn't have his own notions, so much as he supports those of his colleagues. Early TNG was Gene. Later it was Mike, then Jeri. His presence was hardly felt on DS9 after the first season or two, as he was gearing up to be Jeri's echo on Voyager. And all the latter-day Voyager stuff and Enterprise has been 98% Brannon.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Oh, for fuck's sake. Give it a year and Trek fans will be blaming them for Sept 11.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Agreed - I mean watch seasons 3-6 and All Good Things... THAT is classic Trek and TV.
Yup. And it had almost nothing to do with Gene Roddenberry at all, and a fair amount to do with Rick Berman.
Yes, but like the One Ring the power that he holds has twisted him over the years - those initial years he was fine. Berman or should I call him Baegol... turned into Bollum (ah is that why Porthos is a Beagle - a subtle reference?)
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I'm perfectly willing to give Pillar his dues. He wrote some great stuff. He also wrote Insurrection, but even the best of us can slip up. Even Taylor wrote some good stuff, although she mixed that in with an awful lot of "human interest" crap. And is that the same Pillar and Taylor who are credited with co-creating Voyager?
I really dislike the general attitude though of "There's something bad in Trek, blame Berman! There's something good, well, it's not him, give the credit to someone else!"
And do you seriously think that Roddenberry has much to do with TNG beyond the first season? Seriously?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Where does Majel fit into all of this? Has the house of Roddenberry been entirely excluded from the fate of trek?
Registered: Sep 2000
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I think one of the major factors in Nemesis's lukewarm box office returns was the scheduling. Considering how well the first LOTR film did business-wise, you gotta wonder what Berman and the rest of TPTB at Paramount were smoking when they decided to put Nemesis up against TTT.
-------------------- "Sweet Jesus, do you have to use the whole can?" -Metatron
Registered: Oct 2003
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I doubt that Berman had anything to do with the scheduling at all.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Sure, Nemesis opened againat strong competition, but don't forget that TFF opened against BATMAN, and it still made more money that Nemesis. Hell, if you adjust ticket prices for inflation Nemesis sold a LOT fewer seats than TFF.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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Maybe. Although I'd tend to think that LOTR would beat Batman in a straightforward fight for seats.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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