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Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:

The future is ruled by the Tholians with their squeaky voices and their Radio Shack- built detonators.

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Ohh, can't wait to see/hear Tholians again - that episode from season 2 - "Cold Front"? The Tholians were uber-eerie with their crackling, distorted, twisted voices.

Also the problem with Wesley's comment - it was towards the end of SEASON 2!!

What was there before that? The Voyage Home and possibly at that time The Final Frontier - there was no "Undiscovered Country" etc to give the impression that Klingons had joined the Federation - was that their idea from "Farpoint" - with Worf on the bridge? Didn't we get an interspecies exchange mention in season 2 though? And I always thought that they wrote Worf from "Farpoint" as if he was a Klingon but a Federation Citizen - like he's always been written.

Maybe Wesley meant to say "when that KLINGON joined the Federation *spit*!"



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"Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)

I'm LIZZING! - Liz Lemon (30 Rock)

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Klingons in the Federation? While they are en route to Starbase 515 in TNG: "Samaritan Snare", Picard is talking of his early days in Starfleet and the incident with the Nausicaans, when Wesley poses a surprising question: "Was that before the Klingons joined the Federation?" Picard confirms that. So are the Klingons members of the Federation at the time of the episode (2365) and had already been for some time? A view of the bridge of a Klingon ship from TNG: "Heart of Glory" seems to corroborate just that. Here we see the Federation emblem along with the Klingon emblem. It is not something electronically inserted into the image, but the two logos are obviously openly displayed on the Klingon vessel. Why would the Klingons do that if they were not members of the Federation?

On the other hand, there is overwhelming evidence that the Klingons were definitely no Federation members at the time of TNG and DS9. Episodes like TNG: "A Matter of Honor", "Reunion" and "Redemption" made it very clear that the Federation and Klingons were just allies, if at all. The Federation or Starfleet had no business in the Klingon Empire. In DS9: "The Way of the Warrior" the Klingons even fought against the Federation (before officially declaring war in DS9: "Broken Link"). Sisko said that the Klingons had not only called back their ambassador, but that they had even retreated from the Khitomer Accords, their mutual peace treaty. Logically the Klingons would have had to leave the Federation first before going that far. It seems very unlikely that their membership had ended soon after "Samaritan Snare" because this would have definitely been a major issue in the Klingon arc of TNG.

When TNG was first conceived it may have actually been the intention that there was more than just an alliance between the two galactic superpowers. In Roddenberry's eyes such a development would have been a quite palpable progress in the spirit of Star Trek. But with writers being fond of Klingons as mostly unpredictable, often mysterious and sometimes villainous alien allies, this idea was silently dropped and leaves us just with the two pieces of evidence from early TNG. We may suppose that the Klingon commander in TNG: "Heart of Glory" demonstratively showed the Federation emblem to gain an advantage just because the two powers were only loose allies. Wesley's remark and Picard's confirmation about a Klingon membership in the Federation is something we should rather overlook. Unless we found a way to re-interpret "joined the Federation" as just "became friends with the Federation".�

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The conquest of Vulcan There are two contradictory statements about Vulcan history according to which Vulcan may have either once been conquered or never been conquered. The following is taken from TOS: "The Conscience of the King":


Dr. McCoy: "Would you care for a drink, Mr. Spock?"
Spock: "My father's race was spared the dubious benefits of alcohol."
Dr. McCoy: "Oh. Now I know why they were conquered."


In TOS: "The Immunity Syndrome", on the other hand, this conversation takes place:


Spock: "Their [the Intrepid's Vulcan crew's] logic would not have permitted them to believe they were being killed."
Kirk: "Explain."
Spock: "Vulcan has not been conquered within its collective memory. The memory goes back so far that no Vulcan can conceive of a conqueror."


As with nearly all statements about historical events, we need to take them with a grain of salt. There are always different perspectives. Fortunately the fact that two different persons made contradictory statements facilitates the issue a bit. Whilst Spock may have indeed referred to an occupation of Vulcan with military violence like it has never taken place, McCoy may have meant the "conquest" of Vulcan after the planet has joined the Federation. On the other hand, there was practically no one and nothing alien on Vulcan in TOS: "Amok Time" or "Star Trek VI". Anyway, while Spock's statement is so definite that it doesn't allow a different interpretation, it should be taken seriously, unless we pretend that Spock was lying, for which there would have been absolutely no reason. If anything, then McCoy's casual remark may not have been what it seems.

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
And Picard? He doesn't correct him, he says 'yes'.

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
Heheh, I saw "Samaritan Snare" the other night and Wesley said to Picard that the Klingons joined the Federation. He didn't correct him? Anyone care to comment?

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Looks like a RERUN to me. I think I even had pictures posted at one time to go with it.

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Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...