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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » General Trek » UESPA in Enterprise? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: UESPA in Enterprise?
J
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No those names continue to be a part of canon. Kirk was under the command of Earth--- Not the Federation, at the beginning of his five year mission.

Who knows if the Enterprise was supposed to be a Federation ship loaned to Earth, or if it was an Earth ship loaned to the Federation [this would only be for TOS--- to include the movies would mean another possible change over].

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The Red Admiral
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Several times in TOS the Enterprise was referred to by aliens as an 'Earth ship', and the outposts along the Romulan Neutral Zone were called 'Earth Outposts'. So being under general Earth Command, or UESPA makes some sense, but how this can be explained away in reference to the later adopted, and accepted Starfleet, and United Federation of Planets I do not know.

It does seem to blow the canon theory that the UFP was formed in 2161, as it all seems to suggest it wasn't completely finalised until a lot later, in that UESPA operated for some time into the 23rd century, only then to incorporate official involvement with other races and hence bringing a 'united Starfleet' and Federation into being.

It's certainly a gray area.

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bX
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In terms of alien references to 'Earth Outposts' and 'Earth Ships'; could that just be a outsider's colloquial for 'Federation'? I mean, however incorrectly, we still refer to citizens of the former Soviet Union as 'Russians' despite the variety of nation states from which they may have originated. I mean it's not completely wrong, just an over-generalization. As for referencing actual organizations, it could be that the older name would be more widely recognized than the newer FoP (teehee!) or Starfleet.

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The Red Admiral
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In 'Balance of Terror' the Enterprise crew themselves called the under attack outposts 'Earth Outpost 4', 'Earth Outpost 5', and so forth. Another such reference along the same theme was Kirk's brother who was stationed at 'Earth Colony 2' for some time, which was perhaps a settlement project set up decades before by UESPA.

So it really was their own designation. I tend to view the Earth Outposts from 'Balance of Terror' as an old reference to distinct Earth installations that had been in place since the 2150's-60's during the Romulan wars, probably as a measure to patrol and secure Earth, or UESPA boundaries to the Neutral Zone. So even after this eighty year period they continued to retain their old Earth Outpost tags.

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PsyLiam
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"Remember, these terms were made up by several different writers before the decision was made to adopt "United Federation of Planets" and "Starfleet." Once it was established that the UFP & SF were crated in 2161, those other names went out the window."

Er, you mean they were dropped in 1992? I think they were thrown out long before that.

[ June 16, 2001: Message edited by: PsyLiam ]

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Dukhat
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Yes, I'm aware of that

And whether the Enterprise was an Earth ship operating under the auspices of the Federation or vice versa wasn't my point. I was just saying that those Federation pre-names were only used once or twice back at the start of TOS, then forgotten. I think it's highly unlikely, no matter whether the names are canon or not, that "UESPA" or any other of those names will be used. Most of them sounded rather silly anyway, like "Star Command." Right out of Buster Krabbe-era Buck Rogers...

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop


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colin
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Please be considerate for this response. For this response, I am using only the information from the first series.

According to that series, the United Federation of Planets was a new creation by the second or third year of the USS Enterprise's mission. Before that year, the U.F.P. was preceded by Earth's U.E.S.P.A. and other planets' navies.

Prior to 2195, the first year of the USS Enterprise's mission, there was a terrible war that ravaged the galaxy. ("The Mark of Gideon") This war involved planets (Earth, Vulcan) and individuals (Officer Kirk, Captain Garth of Izar). ("Whom Gods Destroy") The war ended with the Battle of Axanar. (ibid.)

The Axanarians, who witnessed the war, helped the two warring sides to write a treaty that ushed in peace and galactic unity. Their dream was the U.F.P. (ibid.)

By 2197, the U.F.P. was firmly founded.

According to the original chronology, which is supported by statements in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Space Seed", here is the original chronology.

4.5 billion years before Star Trek (YBST) Pollux IV is created.

600,000 YBST Sargon's people explore space.

500,000 YBST Sargon's people destroy themselves.

50,000 years before Star Trek (YBST) Horta of Janus VI start a new cycle.

10,000 YBST Fabrini sun novas.

10,000 YBST Kalandran outpost built.

6,000 YBST Humans are transported and educated by aliens on unnamed planet. Gary 7 is a descendent of these humans.

6,000 YBST Ice age on Sigma Draconis 6 causes the population to split into male and female camps.

3834 BCE Flint is born.

5000 YBST Sarpeidon experiences ice age.

2500 BCE Sahndara sun novas.

200 BCE Platonians leave Earth.

c. 200 Spock's family obtains land.

c. 200 Surak, a leader of the people, seeks peace with other leaders on Vulcan.

c. 700 The Metron representative is born.

c. 1230 Zetar star novas.

1688 Ethics by Spinoza

c. 1700 War starts between planets in the Eminair Star System.

1787 US Constitution

c. 1800 Last war on 892-4.

1861 to 1864 American Civil War.

1882 OK Corral Gunfight.

1888 Jack the Ripper stalks London.

c. 1900 Kaladans leave the Andromeda Galaxy for the Milky Way Galaxy.

1914 to 1918 World War I.

1925 Folsom Point discovered.

1930 Edith Keeler is killed.

1932 7 women killed in Shanghai, China.

1939 to 1945 World War II.

1960 Zephram Cochrane is born.

1968 Test flight of a nuclear platform.

1969 Apollo 11.

1974 5 women killed in Kiev, Russia.

1992 Eugenics War start.

1992 Chicago Mobs of the Twenties is published.

1993 Khan seizes control of Near and Far Asia.

1996 Tarbolde writes Nightingale Woman.

1996 Flight of the SS Valiant.

1996 End of the Eugenics War.

1996 SS Botany Bay leaves Earth.

1997 Levinus V is attacked.

1997 Awakening on Argelius 2.

1997 John Burke of the Royal Observatory surveys the night sky.

2002 Nomad is launched.

2018 Sublight ships obsolete.

2030 A writer writes that the most important words are, "Can I help you?", over "I love you".

2047 Zephram Cochrane disappears.

2096 End of the Earth-Romulan War.

2097 USS Archon is lost.

2097 Deneva is colonized.

2098 USS Horizon is lost.

2105 8 women killed on Mars.

2147 USS Valiant is lost.

2147 Janus VI is founded.

2149 Dr. Daystrom is born.

2158 2 women killed in Heliopolis City, on a colony world.

2163 James T. Kirk is born.

2166 SS Columbia is lost.

2167 Scotty sees for the last time, until 2197, a PXG reactor.

2169 Flint purchases Holberg 917-G.

2172 Battle of Donatu 5.

2173 Duotronics Revolution.

2173 Dr. Daystrom goes on lecture tour.

2174 Enterprise-type ships commissioned. (speculation)

2175 Elizabeth Dehner is born.

2175 Pavel A. Chekov is born.

2176 Dr. Adams reforms the penal system.

2176 Governor Kodos orders the execution of 4000 colonists on Tarsus 4.

2176 First Earth ship is lost to unknown cause in star cluster NCG-321.

2177 Lenore Kodos is born.

2179 Charlie Evans is born.

2179 Spock elects to join the Academy.

2181 Civilian Kirk meets Mitchell.

2182 Charlie Evans is marooned on Thasus.

2182 James T. Kirk enters Academy. Kirk meets Ruth.

2184 Dr. McCoy meets Nancy.

2184 Captain Pike commands USS Enterprise.

2185 Ensign Kirk is promoted to Lieutenant.

2185 Lt. Kirk surveys a planet.

2186 Dr. McCoy and Nancy end a two-year relationship.

2186 Lt. Kirk graduates.

2187 Karidan Company of players is formed.

2187 USS Farrugut is attacked with the loss of 1/2 her crew.

2191 Archaeological excavations are started by Robert Crater on M-113.

2191 Dr. Korby leads archaeological expedition to Exo 3.

2191 Officer Spock meets Leila Kalomi.

2191 Officer Kirk meets Janice Wallace.

2191 Cyrano Jones first works as an asteriod prospector.

2191 SS Beagle lost.

2193 Mining operations begin on Rigel 12.

2193 Nancy Crater is killed.

2193 Captain Kirk meets Officer Ariel Shaw.

2193 Elias Sandoval leads an expedition to the Omnicron Theta Star System.

2193 Spock visits Vulcan.

2195 Shipments from M-113 decreased in volume.

2195 Ingraham B is attacked.

2195 to 2200 Series

2197 U.F.P. is formally founded.

2200 Yonada, a Fabrini ship, arrives at destination.


There are several disparities between this chronology-the innovation of warp drive and its relation to the Eugenics War, the founding of the U.F.P., etc-to the later chronology as established by canon.

This proves I think that the later series have damaged the canonicity of the first series. The coming series, Enterprise, will add damage to the canonicity of the first series and will not be the series that started the damaging. TNG is the first series to do damage.


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The_Tom
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Well, death to Okuda! How dare he overwrite, with GR's approval, one of dozens of fandom-based timelines that've floated around since the seventies...

I think the above proves that no matter how hard you try, Trek is a television show, and like every other television show will make self-contradictions and be unclear etc. etc. whether Roddenberry, Braga or JMS writes it. (The horror, the horror...)

The thing is, the fans of most other television shows don't let this bother them. Strangely enough, many Trek fans can't seem to fathom this ability. Poor things.

[ June 17, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]

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colin
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The Tom

One of the criticisms leveled at Enterprise is that the show will damage facts as established in the first series.

I created a history derived solely from material in the series. And then I compared off-screen the information to the established on-screen chronology of the later series. They don't match at several points. The damage that many fans believe will come from the next series has already occured. This is a fact.

I don't believe that we will see or hear references to U.E.S.P.A.. I do believe they will create a new agency for the SS Enterprise.


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The Red Admiral
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Kudos to creativity, but you're at least 50 years out with most of those dates. For instance Sarek was 202 in 2367 (Sarek), meaning he was born in 2165, so how could Spock be around in 2179 to join the academy?! And the Constitution class ships weren't definitely around till at least the 2240s.

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PsyLiam
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Red: You're using the official continuity. Targetemployee's trying to just use info from the original series.

Still...

Just what is that timeline based on? The current year was never mentioned in TOS. And the general terms they used to describe the year changed rather drastically episode to episode. Going by different quotes, TOS could have been set anywhere from the 21st century to the 29th!

And, specifically:

"According to that series, the United Federation of Planets was a new creation by the second or third year of the USS Enterprise's mission. Before that year, the U.F.P. was preceded by Earth's U.E.S.P.A. and other planets' navies."

Where on Earth have you got that from? For one thing, Starfleet and the Federation was mentioned in season 1. I'm sure it was actually mentioned before Tomorrow is Yesterday, which was the last mention of UESPA (to my knowledge, UESPA was mentioned exactly twice. Tomorrow is Yesterday, and Charlie X). When was the creation of the UFP ever mentioned? When was it said it occured during the third year of the original series?

As an aside, when , er, Blish, Bush, that guy who did all the novellettes of episodes (you know, HIM), did Tomorrow is Yesterday, he changed Kirk's line:

TV: "Our governing authority is the United Earth Space Prope Agency"
"Earth...Space?"

Novel: "Our governing authority is the United Federation of Planets"
"Federation of...planets?"

Since the novels were officially authorized by GR and others on the staff, I guess that they apporved the change.

And, as another aside, have you ever read that Making Of Star Trek book by Steven E Whitfield? There are large chunks of the original series bible in it. And, apart from the proposal (which mentioned that the date would be kept vague), all the text placed TOS as occurring in the 23rd century. And this book was written in 1968, so it predates ALL time-lines, official and fan.

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Harry
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The term UESPA survived into the Move era, since the Enterprise-B plaque mentioned UESPA. This would also mean that UESPA hasn't dissapeared from the minds of some production people.

And to confuse things more, there is also something/someone called "COMSOL, Starfleet Command", which gave Commodore Mendez an order...

[ June 17, 2001: Message edited by: Harry ]

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Omega
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I'd guess that Starfleet was, in the early years, composed of planetary militias. Earth's would have been the UESPA. Perhaps that would explain the presence of an all-Vulcan ship, the Intrepid(?), not too long after it was stated that Spock was the only Vulcan in 'Fleet. The ship might have been completed and launched shortly thereafter.

Perhaps each planet had the responsibility of building its own small fleet, and the mainline exploration ships were placed under Earth's jurisdiction for the sake of simplicity.

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The Red Admiral
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Going back to PsyLiam, I was indeed referring to the official allusions in TNG which placed the current time frame in the 2360's. 'Sarek' was set in 2367, meaning Sarek himself was born 202 years earlier in 2165. I don't think you'll find Spock was born till somewhere around 2200 2220. So yes, this later Chronology has to really be used, and the TOS chronology is all over the place in regards to dates, centuries and general info. such as UESPA, UFP etc.

But TOS was indeed set in the 2260s, due to references to 'a hundred and four years ago' (I think it was) in Trials and Tribble-ations.

But that's a hell of a spot by Harry, I have JPEGS of all the plaques and I NEVER noticed that there was indeed a UESPA division involved in the Enterprise-B construction/development.

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"To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty

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The_Tom
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BTW, I believe targetemployee's basing his dates on the Eugenics Wars being two hundred years before "Space Seed", then filling in stuff forwards and backwards.

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