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Uh....no...i'm pretty sure the andorians are well aware of the catacombs[Archer specifically argued that the andorians seen the ancient relics in that last room, so why can't humans]
besides, if andorian sensors can't even detect the existance of the catacombs, then that pretty much add fire to my argumement that andorian sensors are shit!

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Well, the sensors in TNG have had troubles pentrating rock formations, as I recall. Is it really surprising that Andorian tech two centuries earlier can't, either?

I don't recall that arguement by Archer. If the Andorians knew about the catacombs, they would've a) found the radio transmitter and fixed it, and b) not put their prisoners in a room with access to it.

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Uh...to the naked eye maybe, but you forget that this is the third very detailed search the andorians conducted of the temple....why would the andorians not specifically search for secret passageways is beyond me,
do the andorians expect that the secret entrance to the sensor array is gonna have a huge neon sign pointing at it---saying:

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Well, since they didn't KNOW ABOUT THE CATACOMBS ... idiot.

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Its not a big point, but for a planet without technology, they should have found any kind of energy signature going from the surface to orbit a bit odd. "They weren't looking" is a lazy excuse for everything. They're idiots or their sensor tech suck.

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The energy signature from the facility was no doubt blocked somehow by the Vulcans so it didn't register on an orbiting ships' scanners.

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There is no denying the fact that andorian sensor tech is incompetent or the andorians are.

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So, they did know about the catacombs, and if they didn't?.....then thats my point.

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Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:

There is no denying the fact that your grammar is as deficient as you are.

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The andorians are pretty sure the vulcans are hiding it somewhere, so that means automatically they should be searching for secret passage ways don't your think.

Idiot.

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

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I'm pretty sure the andorians are well aware of the catacombs[Archer specifically argued that the andorians seen the ancient relics before in that last room, so why can't humans]

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The argument took place right when the andorians are escaping into the catacombs, archer wants to pursue, then the vulcan complains that those chamebers are off limits, but Archer states something to the fact that Andorians have just about seen everything to these secret catacombs so why can't they now.

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You're an idiot. The Andorians go into the catacombs after Reed blows up the bomb. There's no evidence the Andorians knew about them BEFORE that, now is there?

No.

Try and use your brain every now and then.

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And WHY are you even trying to refute points that are not casting anything against the show? I've seen your quick tempered arguements in other threads where you "jump to the rescue" of what you percieve as "enterprise bashing", but comon, this is a little more stupid.

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Uh ... I'm not leaping to defend Enterprise from legitimate complaints, but since you don't seem to understand half the episode (and since your grammar is bad) a smackdown is called for.

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And another thing, if they didn't know about the catacombs, "uh yeah so?"
what does that have to do with locating the sensor array?

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Well ... since its hidden in the catacombs, it has EVERYTHING to do with it, don't you think?

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The andorians are pretty sure the vulcans are hiding it somewhere, so that means automatically they should be searching for secret passage ways don't your think.

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Do they have reason to look for secret passages? Personally, I don't understand why the keep raiding the Temple. It's a big fucking moon.

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Idiot.

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Yes, you are. You quite obviously didn't understand the episode. Archer & Co. pursue the Andorians into the tunnels -- the Andorians didn't know about the tunnels until Reed blew up the big face -- and then you claim its proof they knew about them all along.

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Originally posted by The_Tom:

I got the impression that the Andorians had fled that way after the charges went off and so Archer was referring to the fact that the Andorians had already breached the sanctity of the reliquery, thereby making it only logical that they should be able to follow them in.

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Thank god, an actual reply that tackles the a point in a correct debate manner.
What your saying, Tom, makes alot of sense.

I might look upon that quote now with a different light, but nevertheless,
The andorians have been there three times and some thing like the catacombs[foundation of a monastery] continnues to elude them each time points to the Andorians capabilities of this era
hehehehe

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

How can the andorians miss the catacombs?, and yet still hope that they can find a sensor array?

MS, your an immature egotistical idiot, i can safely say that i never felt the need to so "rudely" refute a person's claims becuase he seems to be wrong[based on my own oppinion], nor can i justify the need to be rude becuase that person may be wrong.
Attacking a person becuase he seems to be wrong and uses phrases that don't agree to you...uh loser!

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

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Which is that the Andorian sensor tech. is too poor for its own good. Even the Enterprise sensors can detect the layout of the caves in "terra nova" and how many life forms were in it.

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We don't know if Enterprise's scanners can penetrate the rock face beneath the Temple, or if Tucker provided Reed with beam-down coordinates. Different rock types, mind you. Even in TNG, the crew sometimes had difficulties locating structures (think: The High Ground) buried beneath rock.

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How can the andorians miss the catacombs?, and yet still hope that they can find a sensor array?

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This sentence makes no sense to me. You seem to be proceeding on the basis that the Andorians knew the sensor array was hidden in the catacombs. However, since they -- as its been pointed out to you on numerous occasions -- didn't know about the catacombs, why would they be looking for them?

Frankly, I don't understand why the Andorians were looking at the Temple at all. Seemed to be to be a big planet they were on.

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MS, your an immature egotistical idiot,

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I'd appreciate it if you'd either address me as "Jeff", "Snay", "Malnurtured Snay", "Deer-Killer", or something besides my initials. I don't say, "Hey, that TF is a real jackass, isn't he?" No.

a) I am not immature. I just don't like people who don't know what grammar is, or how to use it. I come down harshly because of it. If you don't like it, try using your "shift" key every now and then, okay?

b) I am not egotistical. I am, however, in this case, completely correct, and you are completely incorrect. This gives me the advantage.

c) I am not an idiot. You're the guy who thought that the Andorians should've known about the catacombs at the same time you're blathering on about how their technology sucks and they're stupid. Think about it, eh?

Now that you've been mashed into a tiny little paste, I'll use you to brush my teeth.

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

Unnecessary roughness. Five post penalty for both sides. Reference gets possession of the ball. Both sides must watch 24-hour marathon of Britney Spears and Celine Dion singing opera arias.

I think The_Tom is right about this. The Andorians didn't seem to know about the catacombs until Reed and his assault team were sneaking up the interrogation chamber. After blowing a giant hole into the icon, they snuck in to escape the fire fight. It would also seem to me that the Andorians weren't using their sensors to full power until after they detected the beam-in of the assault team. Being suspicious, they obvious didn't trust the hostages and began scanning the area more thoroughly.

The andorians, at the beginning of the ep, DID NOT know about the catacombs. It is why the Vulcan Cleric said as he showed the doorway to the underground that if the Andorians found out about the catacombs, it would desecrate all that they held important.

You keep on falling back onto the statement that the Andorians don't know about the catacombs and therefor they would not be searching for secret passage ways, one of my first points.

Uh, if you were an andorian and believe stubbornly that the vulcans, despite being in a temple, are hiding a sensor array where they can keep an eye on it with relative ease, and that the first search revealed the sensor array is obviously not above ground or in plain sight located in one of the monastary rooms...then you must....

Search for secret rooms and entrances!

The vulcans could have been blocking them with sensor jammers,
but the Andorians must know the vulcans would try to hide the array from both sight and scans.

They are not the enterprise, they went there for the third time still convinced that the sensor station is there and know now that is is beyond their sensors detection, and that it is in some secret hideout=catacombs.

People less paranoid than the andorians would have started searching for secret passageways and catacombs in an old monastery a long time ago.

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Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay:
Now that you've been mashed into a tiny little paste, I'll use you to brush my teeth.
[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]

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Oh my, more evidence of that loser conduct and need to feed one's ego.

sorry, i'll end it there Sieg.

[ November 01, 2001: Message edited by: TheF0rce ]

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You seem to miss the point that the Andorians were searching the temple three times, over and over, sweeping every room again and again.

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I seem to miss the point? You're the one who thought they'd been in the catacombs and failed to look behind a tapestry.

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You keep on falling back onto the statement that the Andorians don't know about the catacombs and therefor they would not be searching for secret passage ways, one of my first points.

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They didn't know about the catacombs. I believe I said that because they didn't know about the catacombs, why would they be looking for them?

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if you were an andorian and believe stubbornly that the vulcans, despite being in a temple, are hiding a sensor array where they can keep an eye on it with relative ease, and that the first search revealed the sensor array is obviously not above ground or in plain sight located in one of the monastary rooms...then you must...

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LOOK ELSEWHERE ON THE REALLY BIG PLANET?!

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Search for secret rooms and entrances!

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Considering the Andorians had been there three times, the secret rooms and entrys must've been hidden REALLY well, don't you think?

How can anyone over look such a thing....god your an idiot.

Hidden elsewhere on the planet? Why don't they just hide it under the sea!
Becuase the vulcans priests would have no way of keeping an eye on it would they?