posted
For insurance purposes, possible $poilers ahead
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In a recent interview found at SciFi Pulse/Star Trek Monthly (#108) regarding the continuity of Enterprise; Braga still stands on solid ground that we are wrong and he is right.
Here are some exerts:
quote:One of the many criticisms which has been thrown Braga's way is the fact that many fans feel that Braga plays too fast and loose with Star Trek's continuity. Braga has some rather strong feelings about this criticism and is not shy about expressing them.
"I totally and completely disagree. It's the dumbest comment in the world and I am so tired of hearing it. What have we done? Give me one good example. There are some picayune things that we have chosen to do. We have not broken the rules, but we have bent rules. But there's nothing that important. It's not like we've stated that Kirk never existed. What have we done?
"In fact, we're very slavish to the continuity. I've got people on staff who do nothing but check the continuity. We're constantly aware of it and we use it. We're very aware of it. In fact, I enjoy figuring out the continuity. One of the reasons that I never really did anything with the Romulans, besides the fact that people didn't really seem to be very interested in them in Nemesis, it that we couldn't do anything with the Romulans. It had been stated that no one had seen them before. So what were we going to do? Have guys in helmets all the time? We are extremely aware. If the readers can give me examples of significant breaches in the continuity, please do."
Braga also addressed the fans questions on whether or not Enterprise is a prequel to Kirks era of Star Trek or if it is in fact set in an altogether different universe.
"Yes, it is definitely a prequel. It's not an alternate timeline, of course not. The only criticism about the continuity that has any merit at all - although I think in the end it is wrong - is that we're changing the Vulcans. That's just absolutely not true. If you look at the way the Vulcans behave [on Enterprise], they're exactly the way they've behaved on Star Trek. It's just a different century, when their culture was perhaps a little less progressive in their embracing of humanity. Cultures change. You know what I'm saying?
"Also, we've barely seen any Vulcans. If you tally up the episodes of Star Trek, from all the series that had Vulcans, we've only spent some time with Spock and Tuvok. But we know very little about Vulcan culture. We know a little here and there. So we wanted to explore it. We wanted to explore the paradoxes of it and show how interesting it is. Some people are like, 'That's not Star Trek! That's not the Vulcans!' Well, who's to say what it is?
"In terms of the alternate timeline, I don't understand why people think that. I'm not exactly sure. What's changed? What's so different that they think this must be an alternate history? In terms of the Temporal Cold War stuff, I don't really think anything has happened to change history. With the Borg, some people said, 'Oh my God, Archer was not the first person to encounter the Borg. Picard was. You've changed the timeline.' My answer to that was, 'Well, that got changed in the movie First 'Contact'."
After having addressed countless criticisms made by fans, Braga moved on to the more pressing matter of talking some more about Season Three of Enterprise.
"One of the things you're going to see is some pretty radical structural stuff. We're doing stuff that we've never done.
"Let's set aside the obvious ones. We're beginning the season with a mission, with a continuing arc. The fans that have been screaming for more continuity are going to be in spasms of ecstasy over this, because this is a continuing storyline. There will still be standalone elements, stories and episodes, but for the most part we're hunting for this species now and trying to save Earth.
"I feel creatively stimulated by what we're doing. It feels very different. Just to give you a hint, the first episode of next season doesn't even open on Enterprise. It opens with the Xindi, in a very strange, mysterious place, with insectoid people.
"We're really trying to do this show in a way that's very different. Some people who've read the scripts so far have said, 'My God, this is fantastic. Thank you for doing this.' So the response has been very positive so far. But what will people think? What will the fans think? Will it be too different? Will they be interested in this storyline? If they're interested in strange aliens, if they're interested in war - edged jeopardy, if they're interested in pushing our characters further, if they're interested in something which has more of a sense of a direction and a continuing focus, then they are going to love this. If they like weird Sci-Fi and special effects they're going to love this.
"But believe it or not, there is a faction of the audience that love Enterprise just the way it is. I read a pair of fascinating, really thoughtful little essays about Enterprise in one of the sci fi magazines, one person hating Enterprise and the other loving the show. They both had really good points. So, as I said, we'll see how people respond."
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"With the Borg, some people said, 'Oh my God, Archer was not the first person to encounter the Borg. Picard [Patrick Stewart] was. You've changed the timeline.' My answer to that was, 'Well, that got changed in the movie First 'Contact'."
Well, that's hardly an excuse, is it? He's still the one responsible for the change.
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posted
So, I guess that Ferengi episode wasn't a continuity violation after all. I'm quite relieved!!!! If you think otherwise, well, then you're just STUPID!!!!! Thanks, Brannon, for clearing that up!
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I have to say I agree with Braga (SHOCK HORROR!) in part. The Vulcans - they have been handled wonderfully I believe - although I think the whole idea of Vulcan mysticism being changed within 100 years is a bit... unlikely.
Braga though is an idiot - we never saw any of Vulcan culture through Tuvok - because the idiot didn't have STORIES for Tuvok - or if they started to do something with him - they stopped or fucked it up - i.e. Gravity.
Berman was the one who said they weren't going to have ANTHING to do with the Voyager character's "Alpha Quadrant" lives from the word go, from season 1 and the series suffered ever since. It was only the Doctor and Seven who were really fabulous characters - as we didn't need any backstory to build on for them as they were basically blank slates that started when the series started/when they were introduced.
I don't think Enterprise should have been re-tooled for season III - I've been watching season 2 at the moment (here in Australia) and the episodes have been really quite good. I loved the Andorian/Vulcan episode and the Tholian episode - good stuff.
And back to continuity again - B&B and a LOT of Trek fans - just DON'T get what 'continuity' means.
There is a difference between 'continuity' - which is what TNG and DS9 seasons 1-5 had and 'arcs' which is basically what DS9 season 6 and 7 and Babylon 5 had.
Stargate SG-1 pulls off "continuity" superbly in a true TNG style. They didn't have to garishly refer to previous events every second.
Enterprise is WAY better when it comes to continuity than Voyager was - which was just disgusting. Voyager not only re-wrote a lot of Trek history but there wasn't even internal Voyager continuity! That was really slack. Then by season 6 and 7 they were desperately trying to link back to the rest of Trek by overplaying 'links' and dropping Trek references in the middle of your head.
Very messy stuff - and Braga is partially responsible for it. Berman would be the main culprit.
So although I cut Braga a bit of slack - his work on Voyager doesn't give him much.
I don't like this whole retooling idea - which is SO the Viacom suits at work.
Enterprise atm (season 2) is working fine - they should have just left it as it is. Enterprise season 2 does NOT stink like season 2 of Voyager.
Oh and one thing I'm worried about - on Voyager - as I mentioned - there is not internal consistancy. From season to season things changed as if they were starting a new show each year. This re-tooling of Enterprise sounds like the same thing as what they did in Voyager - which is NOT A GOOD THING.
They can't loose site of the premise of the series. It's pretty easy for Enteprise - it was infact even easier for Voyager... "get home" - but by episode 2 they had ballsed it up.
DS9 was the most difficult of premises - they did retool in season 3 and 4 - but for the better - and DS9 went from strength to strength once Ron Moore and Ira Behr were left alone.
posted
I don't mind the retooling in the sense of "Something huge has happened that has effected many of our characters and they have to go take care of it... that's what this season will be about." That's cool... I dig that. It's one chapter in a big, seven chapter story. And of course characters and personalities and motives will change as a result... the story's evolving.
So, retooling isn't necessarily bad... it's all about how they handle it and whether or not they're planning the thing out.
Voyager always always felt very pieced together. Even the overall Emissary story arc in DS9 had to stretch to make the connection all the way back to season 1.
I'm looking forward to the third season. I'll give it a chance. But I swear... he needs to stop saying "We're doing things we've never done before." Didn't they say that about the series in general before it started?
posted
A very funny thing I saw tonight on TV. There is a satire/comedy show on here called CNNNN - bascially a news/current affairs piss-take and they even have the ticker-tape news going along the bottom the whole show with silly things like:
"14 horses die in water-polo tragedy"
one of the news 'briefs' on the ticker tape was "Star Trek: Enterprise boldy goes where every other Star Trek series has gone before".
I'm guessing the guys who do the show - there are a group of them - must have a little nerd in them
posted
Okay, while we're here, can people please list their 5 biggest continuity problems with Enterprise? The ones that annoy them the most? I'm just curious.
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posted
yknow, i LIKED season 2 of ENT.. i've actually been watching pretty faithfully, and being entertained.. i'm mad because they're kind of pulling the rug out of all the set up theyve done over the past 2 years with the Vulcans, Andorians and Klingons.. i watched all the episodes leading up to 'The Expanse' and was duy impressed.. i must even say that, even though the continuity SOUNDED really sore, 'Regeneration' came out fine in my opinion.. (but then i said the same of 'Acquisition' whilst everyone else bithed).
Now, the show that i was growing to like is gone. Enterprise isnt about Vulcans and Andorians and Klingons and exploring.. its a vengeful space marine jumpship. i personally feel a little betrayed by all the cheesy histrionics and the 'attack on america'.. oops i mean 'attack on earth' story.. 'the expanse' was hokey and left me with a bad taste in my mouth, even while it delivered a lot of fanboy-payoff moments since it was the last episode of the show we knew.
blah.
for the record, continuity bothers for me are 1> Vulcan psionics -- by making mindmelds a crime, they are really playing fast and loose with the history of Vulcan. Brannon's right, they havent directly broken any rules, but i feel thematically something has gone wrong. Vulcans are very psionic creatures, repressing their powers seems problematic as best
2> the first contact with the Romulans was pointless and boring. introducing mankind's longest standmng enemy couldve had a little more relevance than a one shot ep like that. and NOBODY should have cloaking in ENT.. thats the biggest crime, IMO.. theres just no explanation for that
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posted
I'm not so put off by Enterprise's lack of continuity with the rest of the series as I am with the lack of trying to do something new with the show. Yes... there have been a couple of good arcs going on, and I hope they continue as we get closer to the founding of the Federation.
My hope is that, while Enterprise does its thing in the Expanse, Starfleet will be doing other things and eventually, we'll get caught up on some of the major events that have been warming up in local space while they were gone.
We'd also get a darn good tie-in to the Temporal Cold War and it had better be a major part of the conclusion to the series.
My biggest beef with Regeneration was that the crew of Enterprise was able to deal with the Borg nano probes more effectively that Picard's crew. They also changed the way and the speed with which the Borg nanoprobes work for the sake of making the story work. We have, however been left with the crew member who is indellibly tied to the Borg, ala Picard and Chakotay.
quote: Some issues I have just off the top of my head are the communications arrays and other bits of technology. TOS episodes like "The Armagedon Game" and "A Piece of the Action" explicitely state that starships of 100 years ago were limited to speed of light radio waves for communication and Balance of Terror explicity lists the primitive capabilities of the old Earth ships as being one reason that the Romulans were never seen but in Enterprise we have full FTL subspace radio with instant communication between Enterprise and its home base. This is a blatant contridiction. There are other things like them having "phase pistols" rather than lasers like they had in Pike's time that rub me the wrong way but can be glossed over due to TNG's comments about the phaser being an invention of the last 200 years. I did not like the Ferengi episode either in concept of execution. Here is a species that was distant and mysterious, with the Federation knowing little about them in 2364 and they suddenly appear within 50 light-years of Earth( distance quoted to Risa in Enterprise episode) in 2156 yet they are barely even known two hundred years later. If the Ferengi could reach this area they would have swarmed it and become part of the culture, not just sat on the sidelines.
Comments from a friend on another board, but I think another poster put it best when she siad:
quote: While there will always be nit-picking fans, if Enterprise told compelling stories filled with fascinating characters, there'd be a lot fewer people letting their minds wander to continuity glitches.
It's easier to quantify one's displeasure by citing specific variances from what came before, but the main reason for fan discontent and plummeting ratings, imo, is that the show, as drama, just isn't very good.
She nailed it.
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1) Too many Klingons too soon. Their first contact wasn't as disasterous as stated in the ep. "First Contact" [TNG], nor did it have anything to do with SF changing its first contact policy. Disasterous usually means people die or ships explode, Archer got shot in the leg...wooo, disasterous!
2) The Ferengi (I shall let others comments speak for me).
3) Vulcans are too antagonistic. Initially they come across as "enlightened" creatures (in ST8), their interests piqued by the detection of a new race achieving FTL technology. Then within 100 years, like a nagging mother or girlfriend, they turn into the Vulcans we see on Enterprise giving you shit for going out with your friends and being independant, telling you you will never make anything of yourself. Personally I cannot see how they will evolve into being the Vulcans we see in TOS. To go from being telepathically repressed to being cabable of telepathically 'sensing' the deaths of a Vulcan starship over a number of lightyears in 100 years (and at that a half-Vulcan capable of it), it just doesnt seem feasable.
4) The Romulans. I dont have a problem with them, no continuity has been violated and they certainly have a place in that timeframe, ignoring them would be a stupid stupid mistake.
I do however have a problem with B&B saying that no one was interested in the Romulans in Nemesis, Dina Meyer was the only Romulan in Nemesis and her part in the movie was smaller than Guinans.
I know not being able to have the Enterprise and Romulans meet face to face makes for difficult writing, but if they were capable of interesting writing it could be done. It was nearly done with "Balance of Terror", it was done with "Starship Down", be it they are merely the 'token' fill in bad guys or not...some interactions need to occur for the contiunity of the Earth-Romulan war to be fulfilled.
5) The Borg. I can see where they were really grasping at getting a story out of the debris in ST8 for "Regeneration" and, in my opinion, they did the best they could with what they had, be it a stretch of not. To an extent it succeeded, the Borg were destroyed in the end and they turned into another unknown threat as seen in the 'wisp' alien episode or the season 1 'species 8579' wannabes that were never identified. As long as they never do it again, then I suppose all is well.
Finally, the little "convieniences" that seem to make the show seem too futuristic. Most of it has been mentioned above, but just a recap: the weapons, the transporters, the subspace radio...it is, again, too much too soon. I realize they try to cut corners with those "relay bouys" and limited transporter use, but the weapons mentioned are unexcusable and pretty much everything else defies established TOS facts such as from "The Cage" and so forth.
To top it off, what about all of those "Daedalus" class era ships always seemed to be so handicapped in retrospect of the people talking about them? The NX is 50years older than the Daeddys and it seems to be much more capable than those tin cans for starships Essex, Horizon, Archon or even the Valiant. C'mon, two of those ships were pulled from orbit, like that will ever happen to Enterprise, they already showed us that they take on 3 BoPs and survive...thats really a stretch in continuity if you ask me.
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posted
I do want to address the Daedalus concept, mainly because I'm in the "it's a fucking awful looking ship" camp, and I prey to god that we never ever see their like again. Or rather, at all.
Actually, that's pretty much my whole point. What exact canon information do we have about starships Horizon, Essex, and so forth? And I mean what specific information do we have about each one? I mean, we only actually know that the Essex is Daedalus class, for instance. What were their capabilities? What operating authority were they functioning under? And when the hell were they "pulled from orbit", whatever that means?
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