posted
That's true. Scotty would've wore yellow today and so would Chekov. Scotty made Capt. (of Engineering) and Chekov was a commander.
Eddington said in "The Adversary" that you don't make Capt wearing a gold uniform." He could've been being sarcastic, but I seriously doubt that gold uniforms get promoted beyond Commander anymore (accept for the Admirals incharge of security that we've seen in DS9). That's what the command division (red uniforms) is for.
posted
Yeah, I never really understood that either. Pulaski was also a full Commander.
Does anyone know if U.S. Navy medical personel are able to rise to such high ranks? I guess it doesn't really matter, but it would give us a basis for comparison.
posted
I would imagine that the people who represent "academic training" in Starfleet, like doctors and science officers and possibly clergymen, get their promotions more easily than red- or yellowshirts. They would basically be staff officers, their rank somewhat "honorary" but their powers and responsibilities lower than those of red- or yellowshirts of equal or even lesser rank. Blueshirts could take special courses in command-related areas to slowly work their way into the command structure, though, like the doctors of the E-D seem to have done. Bashir probably took the command courses in the Academy already (he could afford to, with his superintellect), and thus has always had more command duties than the other doctors.
Still, Cmdr is the highest blueshirt rank explicitly seen so far, if one excludes McCoy's flag rank. And Lt.Cmdr is the highest yellowshirt one in the TNG era. But I wouldn't think of these as any sort of ceiling or anything - it's just that we don't visit facilities where high-ranking blueshirts would work, and by coincidence we haven't spotted any of those thousands of Security Cmdrs and Captains yet.
As for Eddington saying a yellowshirt can't make Captain, I thought Sisko just said to him that he couldn't become a starship captain without changing the color of his shirt. He could probably become a Security or Engineering officer of Captain rank or higher, but would not be allowed to command a starship.
posted
Timo: I think his exact words were "You don't make captain wearing a gold uniform". I could be wrong or he could have meant that it is much harder and takes much longer and it doesn't happen very often. I guess my biggest question about this is, if anyone can make commander or captain, why bother with the division distinctions? While having Crusher show up as the captain of the Pasteur in AGT was a nice dramatic touch, I simply didn't think it was realistic. Acheiving the rank of captain should mean that you are qualified to command a starship, but in her case it absolutely doesn't. There are officers who soend their entire lives training to command a ship. Crusher has spent her life training to save lives. Now who knows, maybe in that future she dropped out of the Medical corps soon after the series ended and essentially started over in the command division and spent the next 25 years gaining command experience. Maybe she was relatively new to command. I just didn't buy it. I wouldn't want to serve aboard a ship where the person in command didn't have the experience to run the ship.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
I think that all the bridge senior officers have a shot at having his/her own command. Picard was only a lieutenant when he was given command of the Stargazer and he was only a what? science officer or was he a helmsman? What about Janeway? Wasn't she not a science officer? I would think that anyone can have his/her own command of they work hard enough. Though officers who went to the command school tend to get a command faster. I think this is how it goes: if the captain dies or something, XO will be captain and the second officer will get promoted due to the chain of ranks. For example: onboard Voyager, if Janeway dies, Chakotay gets the ship, Tuvok will be XO, Kim will be then second officer, then Paris. (Poor Paris, he gets DEMOTED as fast as Riker gets PROMOTED)
posted
Regarding a comment above about max times you can spend at certain ranks, yes, there are certain ages in the US military you must be promoted by or be discharged. Perhaps Baloo could let us know for which ranks. If I remember, for a modern day flag officer, I believe the candidate must be capable of contributing at least 12 more years of service to be promoted. I could be wrong, but it's something like that.
I may also be wrong about this too, but if I recall correctly, the Surgeon General is an actual rank in the military structure, albeit it is definately an academic/scientific/technological division of the Department of Defense.
Some one in the military please contribute!
------------------ "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
posted
That article on the PHS officers (like the Surgeon General) leaves out that they also wear the uniforms of services they are assigned to, such as PHS docs who are assigned to Coast Guard clinics.
IP: Logged
posted
The Air Force uses "high year of tenure" to determine how long an enlisted person may honorably serve without further promotion. Note that Air Force ranks are skewed when compared to Army or Marine ranks -- the AF does not have an NCO equivalent to Corporal, but we used to -- Sergeant (now Senior Airman). The following times have changed over the years. More explaination follows these listings:
Airman Basic (AB)
Must serve 8 months for automatic promotion, provided you've been a "good boy(/girl)".
Airman (Amn)
Must serve for 1 year in this rank for automatic promotion, again dependent upon good behavior.
Airman First Class (A1C)
Must serve 24 months in this rank for promotion to Senior Airman (the last "automatic" promotion). Again, dependent on good behavior.
The rank Formerly Known As Sergeant (Senior Airman SrA).
SrA must test for the next higher rank (as all higher enlisted ranks must), and is eligible to do so after one year in that rank. A Senior Airman must either make Staff Sergeant by his ten-year mark or be separated from the service (he can't reenlist, but at least he gets severance pay).
Staff Sergeant (SSgt)
May stay in for 20 years. If not promoted to TSgt by that time, the SSgt must retire.
Technical Sergeant (TSgt)
TSgts used to be able to stay in longer than SSgts, but now must also retire at 20 years, if they have not been promoted to Master Sergeant.
Master Sergeant (MSgt)
Must retire at 24 years, unless he is promoted to Senior Master Sergeant.
Senior Master Sergeant (SMSgt)
Must Retire at 26 years unless promoted to Chief Master Sergeant.
Chief Master Sergeant (CMSgt)
Must retire at 30 years. If I'm not mistaken, this requirement may be waived, if it's in the best interest of the service to keep him/her in.
For officers it's a bit different. I think they must make Lieutenant Colonel (Lt. Col. just above Major) prior to the 14-year mark or be separated (prior enlisted who become officers may remain in for 20 years if they don't get past Major, and may retire at that point). After an officer makes Lt. Col., I'm not certain if there are any up-or-out points prior to the 30-year mark. Generals (or so I think) may stay in for up to 30 years, which may (probably) be waivered if they are serving an important post (such as Air Force Chief-of-staff).
In Trek, I think things work differently. In one episode, where Q allowed Picard to live his life over, Picard wound up a Lieutenant aboard the Ent-D. Before WW II, a regular officer (not reserves or guard) who was a graduate from the service academy could serve about as long as he cared, without regard to whether he got promoted. The U.S. revised that system around the time of WW II, but it was either during or after the war that the changes were effected.
--Baloo
------------------ "Politicians and diapers should be changed regularly, for the same reason." --(Unknown) Come Hither and Yawn...
[This message has been edited by Baloo (edited January 15, 2000).]
posted
Regarding nog's quick promotion: It's war. Realistically, Work should be off commanding a ship (and probably would be if it wasn't for his mistake in that episode whose name I can't remember). Riker almost certainly would have been forced to take a ship by now.
About Kirk: We don't know the exact circumstances behind how he got the Enterprise. Which wasn't the flagship BTW. It wasn't a legend at the time. Sure, Pike might have made it a bit famous, but it was Kirk's five year mission that was suppossed to have made it "legendary".
------------------ "Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."
posted
Well that'd be a nice opener for the next movie,
Riker, Worf (A klingon cruiser), Data, Beverly (medical ship) and Picard all commanding their own starships. (After the end of the Dominion war) since they had all been forced into command.
La Forge and Deanna would still be on the Enterprise. Nurse Ogawa would be the Chief MO on the E and that Trill woman would be the Helm officer.
------------------ "All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited January 16, 2000).]
posted
Wow! Really. Did *SHE* tell you that she was in the movie or did you recognise her!?!
Did she enjoy her role? What was the Character's name? Did she like Riker's errr joystick? (which he used for the Riker Maneuvre)
Alternate Scene:
La Forge: That'll probably be called the Riker Maneuvre Riker (under his breath): That maneuvre's strickly for the bedroom... La Forge: errr Commander... these communicators pick-up EVERYTHING you know... Riker: Riker OUT!
------------------ "All the lonely people, where do they all come from" - Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles.
(Senior Airman SrA).
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