quote:Originally posted by dbutler1986: [QB] Here's my major question...Spock explicitly states these 'primitive space vessels' allow 'no quarter' to be given and 'no captives' to be taken...
One definition of quater is: Mercy or clemency, especially when displayed or given to an enemy.
This definition has nothing to do with room to hold people.
The constraints of the ships in terms of power and food, and the voracity of the combatants may have made it a bloody war with little to no effort to take prisoners.
I still don't see how they could have engaged in any ground combat and the Romulans still remain relatively unknown. If they used Remans as ground troops, then wouldn't Humans (and everyone else) assume the Remans WERE Romulans?
I can hear it now... "No... we're not Romulans, we're REMANS."
Of course, the Founders remained a mystery during the early stages of the Dominion War. Vorta and Jem'Hadar used as front line combatants. Everyone knew the Founders existed, but didn't know what they looked like.
But if that was the case, then why didn't they assume the Romulan ship in "Balance of Terror" would be manned by Remans.
Unless the standard tactic was that Remans were the ground troops and Romulans were the "naval" officers.
Remans... stupid idea anyway... messes continuity all up.
Well maybe this is where nuclear weapons comes into play. Since the Romulans may not have wanted to be seen, they could just launched nukes at ground forces from ships in orbit. To be honest though, I never liked the idea of Romulans being an unseen enemy. I mean what if a Romulan ship had a hull breach and a bunch of crew members got blown into space during battle? What if some humans(or allies)managed to board a Romulan vessel?
Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by dbutler1986: Heh. Maybe crossbreeding with the Remans produced the Romulan skull ridges.
My personal theory on the Remans has them being descendants of Surak-era Romulan eugenics experiments. Which would explain why they have some characteristics in common with Vulcanoids, though somewhat exaggerated and in particular, the enhanced telepathic abilities. Something that may have been the point of the Eugenics program in the first place. Consider that we've never seen Romulans display the same mental or telepathic abilities as the Vulcans, ostensibly because they don't have the mental discipline to access them. Now consider the kind of edge those abilities gave the Vulcans during the War of The Time of Awakening, especially when Surak's teachings were rendering psionic weapons like the Stone of Gol ineffective.
And yes, the presence of Romulan ridges could show some distant Reman heritage, before the Empire made them into an "lesser caste", which likely made interbreeding taboo.
Teh PW
Self Impossed Exile (This Space for rent)
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posted
Temporal time monkey fucking... or, since we have time travel and the ability to reimagin shit, why can't we just accept that things changed? After all, the current ENT book, All the good... seems to monkey fuck how Tripp died in the last Ent episode (certainly easier to swallow than the original holoshit...)
posted
My solution to all of this: TATV is not canon. Never was. There's too much that suggests that it's simply B&B's final "fuck-you" gift to the fans.
-------------------- "Don't fight forces; use them." --R. Buckminster Fuller
posted
Well the ultimate get-out clause is that that entire episode too place on the Enterprise-D in the 24th century. So it's easy to say that history has been recorded inaccurately, so to my mind none of it really matters. End of.
It's just a shame the series had to end like it did, I think if the episode, or at least the concept of a historical crossover was done mid season, it might have worked better. Think something similar to that Voyager episode where some race find a backup copy of the EMH years in the future (I forget the title) but with the next gen cast finding, or having to research something to do with the NX-01.
posted
Better yet, have Terra Prime pt.2 be the last episode. I think the ending to that episode was much more fitting that TATV. I mean TATV was the filler episode to end all filler episodes.
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quote:I searched Memory Alpha for Romulan War and found that Battle of Cheron wich was a pivotal battle in the war took place in 2160. The battle ended the Romulan War. That places the beginning of the Romulan War somewhere between 2155 and 2160.
Hmm. Almost everything in that MA entry is speculation.
-Nobody ever says that Cheron was a pivotal battle. Instead, Admiral Jarok in TNG "The Defector" merely says it was a "humiliating defeat" for the Romulans. Kasserine Pass was a humiliating defeat for the US forces in WWII, but it was in no way pivotal: Rommel was doomed from the moment the US troops first landed in North Africa, all the way to his final surrender, completely regardless of what happened at Kasserine in between.
-Nobody says Cheron was in any manner connected with the old Romulan War, let alone that it was the ending clash of that war. Instead, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that the event is fairly recent, because Jarok considers it an unavenged one? It probably is something related to why the Romulans began half a century of silence in 2311.
-...Because nobody ever gives a date for Cheron. Most definitely not 2160.
-Finally, we don't see the exact spelling anywhere on screen. So if we wish, we could say the battle is unrelated to the planet Cheron which was central to the TOS episode "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield". Or we could say that the battle took place at Charon, the moon of Pluto in our solar system.
posted
Don't forget the Tomed Incident which was another conflict between the Fed's and the Rommies. Cheron could have been a battle in that conflict too.
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quote:There's too much that suggests that it's simply B&B's final "fuck-you" gift to the fans.
That's not true at all. Regardless of what I or anyone else thinks about Braga or his writing, the man has stated that he really thought the series finale was a well-written episode that was supposed to be a nice sendoff for Enterprise and all the ST series that came before it. That it was anything but that is irrelevant. He didn't purposely try to piss off anyone, even though he did.
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quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Don't forget the Tomed Incident which was another conflict between the Fed's and the Rommies. Cheron could have been a battle in that conflict too.
Tomed Incident was the last contact between the Federation and the Romulans prior to TNG's "The Neutral Zone." It cannot have been a battle in the Romulan War.
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posted
I know it wasn't a battle in the Romulan War. I'm saying that it was another conflict besides the Romulan War and that the Battle of Cheron could have been a battle in that conflict.
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posted
Are you meaning that the Tomed Incident and the Battle of Cheron were both in the same conflict?
Hmmm....
According to Memory Alpha though, the Battle of Cheron was a conflict during the Romulan War
quote: was a pivotal battle that took place in 2160, between the Romulan Star Empire and an Earth/Andorian/Vulcan/Tellarite alliance. The outcome of the battle effectively ended the Romulan Wars, with the "humiliating defeat" of the Romulans. (ENT: "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II" production art)
Even into the 24th century, the battle remained an intense embarrassment for the Romulans, which, according to Alidar Jarok, would be retributed by "the new leaders" on Romulus, who "vowed to discard the treaty and claim the Neutral Zone," with Nelvana III being the first step. (TNG: "The Defector")
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: I know it wasn't a battle in the Romulan War. I'm saying that it was another conflict besides the Romulan War and that the Battle of Cheron could have been a battle in that conflict.
Dialogue in "The Defector" (TNG) associated the Romulan defeat at Cheron with the establishment of the Neutral Zone, however. Also, IIRC, an article in Picard's scrapbook in Generations mentioned it in that context.
Furthermore, "The Defector" was making reference to Stan and Fred Goldstein's 1980 Spaceflight Chronology, (illustrated by Rick Sternbach) which mentioned the battle and described some details of its action.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
All I'm saying is that the Battle of Cheron could have been a)a battle of the Romulan War b)a battle of the Tomed Incident(which now seems unlikely) or c)a brief skirmish unrelated to either of the two.
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