quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: Better yet, have Terra Prime pt.2 be the last episode. I think the ending to that episode was much more fitting that TATV. I mean TATV was the filler episode to end all filler episodes.
Yah, that's what I was saying. Poor Trip and T'Pol... *snif*
-------------------- "Don't fight forces; use them." --R. Buckminster Fuller
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: All I'm saying is that the Battle of Cheron could have been a)a battle of the Romulan War b)a battle of the Tomed Incident(which now seems unlikely) or c)a brief skirmish unrelated to either of the two.
Good for you. All I'm saying is that there was a clear intention for it to be (a).
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
"Except that Cheron is pronounced 'SHARE-on' & Charon is pronounced 'CARE-on.'"
Actually, if the Wikipedia can be believed (so, crapshoot, basically), a number of astronomers do pronounce "Charon" with a "sh" sound. Apparently, the guy who discovered it picked the name because his wife's name is Charlene, and he pronounced it to sound like that.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
As far as dialogue goes, Charon/Cheron could take place at just about any point of the timeline - it could even be something that happened about three months prior to "The Defector" and prompted yet another palace coup on Romulus, with the new leadership using Charon/Cheron as their rallying cry.
But if those "IaMD" computer screens really nail Cheron down as a culminating event in the original Romulan War, fine. Anybody have a link to the graphic? Or to Picard's scrapbook texts? I searched for the 2003 discussion on the latter, and found no hints on Battle of Cheron there.
posted
See [url= http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/It's_Federation_Day!]here[/url] for the Federation Day news clip from Picard's scrapbook.
Just for the lazy people, I'll quote the relevant passage.
quote:Today's events were but the ceremonial endgame for the often-tumultuous negotiations, which began in earnest after the defeat of hostile forces at Cheron effectively ended the Romulan War only a little more than a year ago.
So, the scrapbook has the goods but isn't exactly canon, not even in some future hyper-HDTV remastering of the movie. And "IaMD" supposedly has something else that may actually be visible on screen, at least at some insane resolution. So what is that? A repeat of the scrapbook passage? Something more explicit, or something more obscure?
posted
The graphic, provided to MA by an ENT crew member, seen in IaMD, part II, states that the War specifically lasted from 2156 to 2160 (ending in the Battle of Cheron and the assistance of an Earth/Vulcan/Tellarite/Andorian alliance).
Unlike the scrapbook, it doesn't directly connect the Federation founding with the Romulan War. It pretty much copies the Star Trek Chronology, placing the wrong birth and disappearance year on Zefram Cochrane and maintaining a few spelling errors.
Of course, I find the 2026 WWIII/Phillip Green information more interesting.
-The computer graphic is seen in its entirety at memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Historical_archive,_Starfleet_(production_resource).jpg -Onscreen the image appeared as: memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Historical_archive,_Starfleet.jpg
IP: Logged
posted
That is some interesting info. The display makes it seem as though Earth went through four World Wars instead of three.
Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged
posted
See, I don't accept most of the stuff in that graphic, myself, because it was ripped directly from the pre-ENT Chronology. Most of the content was just warped to fit the context; especially the "first contact" with the Klingons in 2223, for example.
Don't forget that even TOS got confused about whether the Eugenics Wars was supposed to be the same as World War III, or if it was a separate conflict. I have no problem considering them separate conflicts; even if the conflict was on a near-global scale, I have no problem considering the Eugenics Wars as not deserving the name "World War," because it was primarily caused on one side by the small group of Augments.
Rather, then, World War III would be a "true" world war that was caused by many nations and their actual governments, rather than a small clique of tyrants causing mayhem.
Finally, I also have no problem believing that there were lots of small brush wars and assorted really nasty regions on Earth as late as 2079, without having a separate nuclear war in that time. If the original devastation present in 2053 at the end of World War III was as horrible as First Contact seemed to suggest, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that certain regions of the world wouldn't recover nearly as quickly? Southeast Asia, for example, could easily wallow in warlordism and factionalism for decades (and since most of the infrastructure would have been destroyed, the ability to wage long-range warfare beyond the region might be nil), and the geography and politics might make a recovery there (even with Vulcan assistance) much more difficult. Thus conveniently explaining why we could have Q's little drama setting from "Encounter at Farpoint" while most of the rest of the world was already on the road to recovery.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I believe that if their had been a 5th season, the Earth Romulan War would have been center stage. As to the issue of "Atomic Weapons" and most ships not being equiped with sub space visual communication equipment, the Enterprise also carried spatchel warheads, what ever they were, and partical beam weapons. So the average vessel in Star Fleet would have more primate weapons than the Enterprise and may not been equiped with sub space visual communication equipment. Plus the average Romulan vessel may also had the same problem, being equiped with out of date equipment.
If one considers how long it was before all US navy ships were equiped with radar, from it's introduction to first battle ships and US air craft carriers at the begining of the war, to smaller vessels, down to the torpedo boats, and figher air craft, it would have been until after the end of WWII before all US navy vessels and air craft were all equiped with radar. So it may have been after the end of the Earth Romulan War before all Star Fleet vessels carried photonic torpedos and phase cannons.
-------------------- Beam me up Scotty, there is no intellagent life down here
Registered: Jul 2010
| IP: Logged
posted
Wecome to the boards ellenbetty- you make some valid points.
I think the NX is a vessel that (along with it's weapons) takes a year or more to build- dangerously long in wartime. The deadalus type ships would have been prefab and quick to slap together- useing whatever weapons worked and could be mass-produced.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
Yeah, it's an excellent point that more people who complained about the technology being too advanced on ENT should have kept in mind: the NX-01 was clearly and consistently portrayed as a cutting-edge experimental vessel that was a testbed for new technologies. It stands to reason that it might have had better gadgets than the average SF vessel of the day.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
But it also assumes that the colonies have the ability to build their own starships. I think that's relatively unlikely, at least for most of the colonies. Maybe Alpha Centauri would have the industrial base to manufacture warp cores and nacelles and all that, but I'd be willing to bet that almost all starship construction still took place in the Sol system.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
True- at that point it was probabbaly the UT shipyards making everything- but there would also have been older ships in service (the J-Class for example) that operate from the colonies and could be pressed into service in an emergency for an ad-hoc defense force.
After the Xindi attack on Earth the colonies might have got on the ball with ship production for defense. Certainly a shocking attack will rally the populace into a pro-military frame of mind- just look at 9/11 (which ws obviously a parallel being drawn in season 3).
Hmmm...it's even possible stuff like the Merchantman were originally colony defense ships, decomissioned but sold into private service.
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
Printer-friendly view of this topic
