posted
Mim's analysis makes a lot of sense. The Antonia Incident was obviously quite a significant period in Kirk's life; and it obviously led to significant things. It kinda fits that he'd consider leaving after his (hypothetical) second 5-year-mission, before ultimately deciding to return to Starfleet. He'd have the initial let-down of seeing the Enterprise become a training ship, staffed with lots of people much younger than him; followedd by all that then happened in TWOK/TSFS/TVH/TFF/TUC putting him back on his true path, as a starship captain, for what nust have been a third 5-year-mission.
The alternative is to say most of that happened BEFORE the Antonia Incident, and why would he leave when the whole bloody Federation council had effectively agreed that commanding a starship was what he was made for?
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: Jason - I never actually had copy of the chronology. This thread is comming dangerously close to rekindling nerdy activities that were until now just a distant memory.
EXCELLENNNNT!!
I don't think I consulted the chronology for mine either. If I remember correctly I think I started after the Voyager throw away line of 2270 for the end of Kirk's mission on the Enterprise and built it up around there from my (better) knowledge at the time of all things Trek.
Awesome work Ginger Beacon.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
In retrospect, is there really any reason to assume five-year missions anymore? We know that was the TOS line regarding Kirk's voyage, but we've almost never heard of such a thing elsewhere. Sulu and the Excelsior, IIRC, had a three-year mission, but I'm not aware of any other ship that had a particular timeline in that way.
Older Kim in "Endgame" mentioned something about being out in space for four years or something, but that's as close as we've come.
Maybe there's more from that same Voyager episode with whatzisname's report on Kirk, but I don't know off the top of my head.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
I just happened to see a bit of Generations on TV just now, and it had a line where Kirk says he met Antonia "11 years ago" (unless I misheard) - Memory Alpha doesn't mention this timeframe, just says they met in 2282.
posted
Ah, but 11 years prior to when exactly? We still dont know when that "now" moment in Kirk's happy dreamspace was.
That scene is more odd because it references property ownership- how exactly would that work in a society without money? And on DS9 (which I was watching again from the start) Jake (in Explorers) mentions "a month's supply of transporter credits"- so it seems that, despite unlimited energy and no monetary system, there is some give and take.
Regarding the whole "Five Year Mission" thing, that was never established as some standard operating procedure- taht's just sorta assumed because it makes the convoluted timeline mesh with the series.
Sort of.
I think it likely that the "Five year Mission" was due more to the Enterprise's maximum mission time between refits and major repairs- and that ship took a pounding! Less of a pounding than the Constelation or Intrepid, but still...and then there's stuff like crew promotions. Otherwise yo have a ship full of Harry Kim's- poor losers that do everything right and never get promoted, only to return home and find all the bozos from his class that played it safe on some starbase now outrank him several times over.
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: And on DS9 (which I was watching again from the start) Jake (in Explorers) mentions "a month's supply of transporter credits"- so it seems that, despite unlimited energy and no monetary system, there is some give and take.
Perhaps life on a far-flung frontier outpost is a little different than a planet-bound assignment; energy resources would be rationed, I'd think.
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posted
Oh, dear - the Federation Economy. That's a whole other can of worms you're opening there! There seems to have been a determined policy never to explore it on the shows, probably because anythign that smacks of 'communism' or 'socialism' is the kiss of death in the US.
Simple fact is, with unlimited energy and energy-matter conversion, any sort of scarcity-based economy becomes unsustainable - pointless, in fact. It's a moot point whether the means of production of, well, everything is controlled by the State or by the voluntary collectives or individuals - the result is the same.
So, if you choose to you can live a comfortable but aimless existence on Earth and other human-settled worlds (we never really get to hear about any, do we? I wonder what become of Terra Nova?) as well as the other UFP member worlds. Or you can choose to go out and settle on an outer world where you really have to work for what you get. Or you pursue scientific/artistic/other academic endeavours for the betterment of mankind. Or. . . You join Starfleet and push out beyond the boundaries of what is known and mapped and understood.
And yes, in the hinterlands some things you mjight take for grabted on earth, like being able to transport wherever and whenever you like, would be restricted by the lack of development inherent in a frontier environment. Just the same as how replicator use was rationed on Voyager (but not Holodecks, I don't think - something about a different kind of energy, which never made sense to me. Why not just say that they chose to keep the Holodecks more available for crew morale reasons, and have everyone meet communaly to eat to stop people becoming withdrawn and reclusive as the reality of their plight sank in).
posted
Yes, Voyager was pointless and stupid- such amazing potential for drama pissed away in favor of the TNG syndication format.
I think there must be dozens, if not hundreds of colonized and setteled worlds in the UFP- certainly a mix of races and species though- no "humans only" worlds, though a given race's homeworld is always dominated by that species- Andor, Vulcan, etc. Each world might develop it's own unique culture and dialect (translators would fix that, but it's a pride thing- like Europe).
If anything were to bring down the UFP, I think it would be civil war- some grouping of outer territory worlds catches intolerant religion or decides to monopolize a vital resource their worlds have exclusively and break away. Somehow I dont think that would lead to warfare though- at least not untill the seperatists start building fleets of ships or strike alliances with UFP hostile stellar empires (Breen, Romulans, whatever).
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: And on DS9 (which I was watching again from the start) Jake (in Explorers) mentions "a month's supply of transporter credits"- so it seems that, despite unlimited energy and no monetary system, there is some give and take.
Perhaps life on a far-flung frontier outpost is a little different than a planet-bound assignment; energy resources would be rationed, I'd think.
Totally right but it was Sisko relating how homesick he got when he started Starfleet Academy and how he transported home every night for a week dinner and sleep- Jake replies with "You must have used a month worth of transporter credits!" My bad for not explaining more clearly.
So, taking taht into consideration, a month of credits would be what? Fifteen credits maybe?
Not too shabby if the world population is maybe three or four billion (for sustainibility reasons and the allure of life offworld). That's a hell of a lot of power and an unimaginable amount of computer power if there's (potentially) sixty billion transports going on monthly! That's 720 billion transports every year, and if only one in a million ends in death, that's a hell of a lot of funerals each year.
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posted
I'd always assumed that those transporter credits were an Academy thing, a limit on what cadets were allowed to do. I mean, it is basically a military school. I'd expect them to put their students under quite a few restrictions that don't apply to the general public.
Of course, explaining how "transporter credits" make sense as one of those restrictions is something I'll leave to someone who feels more inclined to putting the creative energy into it.
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posted
Hang on a minute - and this is nitpicking here, but McCoy says he was ships surgeon for 27 years. Does that include the time between the end of the 5 yr mission (when he retired presumably) and Kirk invoking the super secret re-activation clause in TMP?
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posted
Or not very well-thought-out writing. 2266 to 2293 is 27 years. Perhaps given the sheer length of time, he had come to view his pre-TMP retirement (which lasted... how long are we saying? I've lost track. More than the 'official' 2 years between TOS & TMP?) as no more than a sabbatical.
posted
"ship's surgeon" might not apply to just the CMO either- it could be like saying "I was a surgeon for 27 years" in the real world- it does not have to be just the time he was the top doc. On a ship like the Connie, there should have been at least four for five people with the basics at least- someone for McCoy's downtime, third shift and occasioanl shore leave.
Nautical comparisons and TOS screen evidence notwithstanding, it's foolishness to assume that any starship has only one or two medical personess.
as to the cadet credits thing, tha's makes a certain sense but losing all restritions only makes the insane number of transport jumps I mentioned all the larger...
Which makes me think they have some sort of hardline transporter systen instead of beaming someone up to bounce from several satelites to compensate for the planet's curviture- something like magnetic conduits that allow a transporter beam to zip down them to a recieving pad- routed by the magnetic field.
It's how I'd explain the Oberth pylons being too thin for a turbolift- and it eliminates the dangers of inter-ship beaming, as it's really no more dangerous than a plasma conduit.
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