posted
Ok, the fed has tons of aliens in their space and we get to see many of them. But what about the Klingons and Romulans? They must have other races in their midst, but we haven't seen them. (Or at least I can't remember them.) So where are they? Did the K's and the R's kill them all? If so, why is the Fed teaming up with the K's? If not, then where are they? If this has been dicussed before, please let me know. I just thought of this as I was driving home and I thought it would be worth dicussing.
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posted
Interesting topic. I've thought about this a number of times myself, and apart from the "Smooth Forehead" Klingons (which they DO NOT TALK ABOUT), I can't think of any either. In the TOS context, I'm sure it's because they didn't have the budget for the makeup.
Interoffice memo:
Creating the Gorn for Arena ate our makeup budget, so for the next three episodes, Spock will be on leave, and all the aliens will look just like humans with different costumes.
(Preferably females in skimpy ones.)
--G. R.
As far as the movies, TNG, and later, I'll bet they never thought of it.
posted
The only aliens I remeber seeing in association with the Klingons was in the gulag in ST6. I figured that the Klingons were always something like the Soviets/Russians or maybe the British Empire: they subjugated a lot of ethnic peoples, but the officials and other public faces (athletes, cosmonauts, artists, academics) were mostly ethnic Russians. There are probably conquered worlds, but we haven't seen them yet.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
posted
Well, flipping through the Encylcopaedia - you can find that there was mention of the Kriosians!?! In "The Mind's Eye" Wanting to leave the Klingon Empire... And that the Empire was trying to put it down... or something like that. The strange thing is we see the Kriosians again in "The Perfect Mate" No mention of the Klingons though, so maybe they INDEED did leave the Empire. I think the Romulans have the Korvallans?? As part of the Romulan Empire.
Andrew
------------------ "Who wouldn't be the one you love Who wouldn't stand inside your love." - Stand Inside Your Love, The Smashing Pumpkins
posted
I thought the Klingon Kriosians were biologically Klingonlike colonists instead of a distinct race, but I guess they could have looked different. The Krios in the Krios/Valt Minor conflict probably was a completely different planet of the same name...
The Corvallen were working for the Romulans in "Face of the Enemy", but weren't necessarily a subjugated race. The Cardassians have had their Kressari and Xepolite allies as well, and again we never learned if these were independent races or subjugated slaves or something in between.
There have been some explicit slave races, but not many. Cardassia enslaved Bajor. The Son'a had the Tarlac and the Ellorians in "First Contact", and the Trill slugs of course have the Trill hosts (who only form a small part of the total population) as their willing slaves of a sort. The Dominion has nothing but slave races.
Perhaps there's something in the logistics of enslaving an alien race that makes extermination (or uneven political alliance, as perhaps with the Cardie-Kressari case) a more practical solution for all but the most advanced slaver races? Perhaps all slave races are likely to rebel the way the meek and spiritual Bajorans did, in which case enslaving simply isn't worth it on the long term?
posted
Cool. When were the Kressari and the Xepolite mentioned, BTW?
------------------ Devil: Oh look at the time! I'm late for services. Stone: Services? Devil: A group of young teenagers that have been celebrating the Black Sabbath are planning on deep-sixing their gym teacher tonight. I'm gonna go and give them a little encouragement.
posted
This is a subect that WOULD have been explored in MY idea for a series. (See the Post about Series V). Given that the Klingon and Romulan Empires are almost (or are they?) as large as the Federation, it seems inevitable that they SHOULD contain other civilizations. Of course, there could be other explanations why we don't see them, such as:
1: Empires sometimes exterminate the natives for various reasons.
2: The Empires have repressed the other cultures so much that they are seldom seen or represented on board vessels.
3: When the Romulans or Klingons move in, everybody else moves out (there goes the neighborhood!)
4: Their space could be more sparely populated with suitable stars.. say only M or O B and A-type stars (like as we know it is more likely to form around F, G, and K-type stars)
5: The "Preservers" or the "First race" (or the Iconians, or the "First Federation" or the Q, or whoever) seeded the Federation area heavily, but other places less so.
But more likely, it just wasn't in the budget.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
Well, extreminating the populations would have been extreamly difficult considering that a space faring race would number somewhere in the billions (like us today). And having them move out would be even more difficult, moving say 6 billion people would be very time consuming and nearly impossible. I can see repressing them, but after a while the would revolt just like slaves. I think they star theory or the "First Race" theory would be more likely given the nature of people. But the whole budget thing really hampers the discussion.
But you know, the delta quad sure has a bunch of aliens in it and it's nowhere near the federation. Maybe the First Race just missed a spot or two.
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[This message has been edited by fructose1 (edited April 14, 2000).]
posted
For a pragmatic, unsentimental race like the Klingons, what to do with a population might depend on a simple cost/benefit analysis. Let's say there's a nice planet with a few billion people living on it.
What do you want from the planet? 1. Minerals and other resources of the planet, such as trees, animals, water 2. Land for colonization and food production 3. A big rock for a military base 4. Something like Risa
What do you want from the people? 1. Consumers for quality Klingon household appliances 2. Taxpayers/Tribute 3. Slave labor/cheap labor 4. Friends/happy members of your enlightened stellar family 5. Technology, intellectual resources, musicians for Klingon opera houses 6. Nothing, just get lost
It seems to me that if you only want the planetary resources and nothing from the people, it might be easiest to just kill everyone. In The Chase (TNG), a single Klingon ship very quickly made a planet uninhabitable (albeit one without an advanced civ). Even if a planet is spacefaring, civil defense for an entire planet would be extremely difficult, unless you already had, for some reason, an entire network of Strangelovian mine shafts. If you want to get something from the people themselves, the benefit of what you can get has to be balanced with the cost of pacification. If pacification costs too much in terms of manpower and materiel, again it's simpler to kill everyone.
You may notice that these kinds of actions are rather like those of the Nazis. Are we assuming that the Klingons are that bad, that they are, in effect, Space Nazis? As someone asked earlier, are these the kind of people that the Federation wants to deal with?
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
posted
"Sentimental" is probably the wrong word. I was trying to suggest that they don't let sentiment get in the way when they must do unpleasant things, like Kruge killing the woman who stole the Genesis data. I agree the Klingons are sentimental or maybe extremely emotional. I'm sure they enjoy a good cry when they receive greeting cards. Well, you know what I mean.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
I imagine some of that has to do with changing social mores within the Klingon Empire. The U.S., for instance, doesn't act the same way it did during the Cold War. The concept of honor is so nebulous that there should be surprise that there are several differing interpretations of "what Kahless" meant floating around.
------------------ "What did it mean to fly? A tremor in your soul. To resist the dull insistance of gravity." -- Camper Van Beethoven
posted
Of course, it could also be that the evil guys are in fact in control of really small corners of the galaxy. Their mean spirits make up for what they lose in volume, so they are worthy opponents of the more complacent UFP even if they are only fraction the size. Perhaps there simply aren't all that many planets that have been conquered by Romulans or Klingons?
Klingons are always fighting over this region of space or that. But since when have they actually *won* anything? Perhaps they are like dogs that have no idea what to do with a cat once actually catching one - or cheetahs, unable to figure out what to do with prey that doesn't run away. Ruling over a planet isn't half as fun for a Klingon as fighting over it...
Timo Saloniemi
P.S. for the Klingon friends among us, I grant that the Empire did take Archanis sector from the Feds in DS9. But that's the ONLY successful conquest I know of.
posted
I think the Klingon Empire (KE) was one of the first FTL-civs in the vicinity, so they could take over planets relatively easy. The aliens probably were not giving the chance to produce their own starships, or to join the Klingons and that they are either supressed, mixed in with Klingons so well, that they are no longer a specific race or live in reserves, like American Indians. Furthermore, I think a galactic Empire hasn't all the space it says it has. OK, this came out pretty vague, so I'll try to give an example: You have the border solar systems and a few inner systems, including Qo'nos. But that doesn't mean that all the space and systems in between are in Klingon hands as well. Maybe a few planets are reserves for the deliberately non-FTL races supressed by the Klingons.
I hope you understand any of this, my English isn't very good today
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