posted
Here's a wrench in the proverbial machine...
Everyone remember that scene in a Jack Pack ep where they're examining a conference with Weyoun? Jack tells the computer to make Weyoun repeat his last statement in Dominionese, which he does.
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posted
Hey, that reminds me...I should dig out that episode and do some language analysis.
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Frank: Who's to say that particualr idiom didn't end up getting passed down to Standard? Or, more likely, the Standard phrase is probably slightly different, but, since it was being translated back into English for us, it went back to the original idiom, rathern than a literal translation.
Fabrux: What's wrong w/ that? What they were saying is that, if you look at what someone is saying in their own language, you can get a better idea of their meaning than if you take the UT's translation. This makes perfect sense. We even know that in todays languages, there are subtle nuances that are lost when translating. Unless you're simply pointing out that this proves Weyoun was talking in Dominionese and relying upon the translator to make his speech known to everyone else. I don't recall to whom he was speaking at the time. However, if there were people from more than one race, how would he pick which of their languages to speak? He wouldn't. He would just use his own. And, for that matter, since it was an official Dominion function, it would make sense for them to conduct it in Dominionese.
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I think Weyoun was talking to a Cardassian (Damar?). About the UT, it is probably fitted with a sophisticated Dramatic Plot Inducer, just like transporters, cloaking devices and anything related to time travel.
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What about Muniz's Spanish babbling in 'The Ship', eh?
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posted
Well how about this, how does the translator compensate for the sound wave eminating from a persons mouth. In reality we should hear someone speak in (SAY) dominionese, there would be a pause, at which point the translator should spew out the english version. This would of course make discussion very hard over multiple comm links as there would be MANY sounds to compensate for. Irritating to say the least.
I've got a different idea, however. Someone stated before that these translators were linked to the brain? What if, the translator is linked to the brain, then as a person speaks it detects the language the person wishes to converse in and their message. As it does this is actually (through the brain) gives that persons vocal muscles the right impulses to speak the language they wish to communicate in? For instance, if I were to speak to someone in Chinese, but I did not know the language, the translator would control my vocal functions whilst my mouth mind still thinks in english? As for why they are then worn on the jacket, some sort of radiation?
This would also explain the changes in language, the relative colloqualisms. As for Muniez, perhaps he babbled in spanish because under the pain he reverted to his home tongue. How would a translator know any different?
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Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
Yeah, I came through with that possibility. However, don't the Fed's also have implants like the Ferengi did? I thought everyone had one. The ones on the communicators are probably back ups, or more simple versions. For instance, In ST6, they had to speak Klingonese without the help of the UT (because it can be detected) and it was extremely hard. However it probably sounds more true to form when you have to voluntarily learn and speak the language, rather than have the UT do it for you (you may get a weird accent when your mouth is moving involuntarily to your knowing.)
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Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
See I think there are many forms of the UT used in the ST world. These are the three I see most, but there may be more.
1. The Ship's Universal Translator: Used to broadcast a message in multiple translations (For instance, When you meet a new race, the UT broadcasts an extraordinary number of known and possible languages in hopes to get a response.) Also used to translate incoming messages, to alleviate the need for further UT use on the ship. This is a very generic, and normally not extremely accurate, but the language range is expansive. (See-"Shaka, when the Walls Fell") The previous example of ST6, this cannot be used because it would probably be a mechanized voice (or Majel Barrett's voice, which the Klingons would recognize immediately). Most likely used much like the UN radios (but without the need for human translators)
2. Device UT's: Built into devices such as communicators, tricorders, and other mechanics. Like the Ship's UT, this is very computerized. Communicator UT's are less language-expansive than ship's UT (Library computer access helps a lot.), but are more portable. If you are on a planet, and meet a new species, you may want to learn how to basically communicate. Not for extensive conversational use, but could communicate with personal UT's to allow the speaker to talk more fluently.
3. Personal UT's: Much like the ones the Ferengi displayed in the Roswell episode. Obviously works like my previous statement, for The Ferengi couldn't speak English without them, and couldn't understand English the same. Probably has a limited number of languages programmed, but would have the ability to learn new language (probably by communicating with ship/device UT's which have more ability to translate accurately, but cannot be used on a person to person conversation.) Could be used with brain waves to force speaker to speak in the language of the listener. Upside is a more personal conversation, downside is that only one language may be spoken at a time. The brain also communicates so that if you wish to speak in a different language, without translation, you may "shut it off". Examples are like the such where Chekov spouts a Russian word, or Worf swears. They do not wish to be translated, so they communicate with their UT (via brain waves, which travel faster than sound, allowing them to switch between languages in split-seconds).
All these translators have the downside of sounding too mechanical or forced (as said before, if you know what you are speaking and know the accent, you can speak in the language easier and they would understand you better.) The Universal Translator may spout more literal translations ("I going to school" - many languages omit the verb "to be" from their scentences.) We can tell if a spoken part is forced, or real, and as stated before in the ST6 reference, the Klingons may know the Majel Barrett Computer Voice and instantly recognize the Universal Translator as a Federation ship, however, a passing merchant who speaks little Klingonese, but speaks it without use of UT may be allowed to pass.
These three types of translators have their own places in the Star Trek World, but work together to translate the different languages, and make the world even more astounding.
------------------ Well I'm a Bada$$ cowboy living in a cowboy day wicky-wicky-wak yo yo bang bang me and Artemus Clydefrog go save Selma Hayek from the big metal spider Wicky-wicky-wak wicky-wicky-wicky-wak Bada$$ cowboy from the West Si-yiide
posted
Of course, this still doesn't explain how the UT can immediately start translating a language the first time it ever hears it. The only time this issue was ever addressed was in the DS9 ep w/ that one race (the Skreeea?) whose language the UT took a long time to figure out. Other than that, totally new people show up and the UT just starts translating away, even though nobody in the Federation even knew the language existed before.
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Saiyanman Benjita
...in 2012. This time, why not the worst?
Member # 122
posted
The only explanation is that the UT, powered through the ship, has a processing speed thousands of times greater than what we have today. So it may take a second to process the necessary speach patterns and come up with a viable match, whereas it would take years for us today. And of course some languages are simpler than others. For instance, English is probably one of the most complicated languages on Earth (and people still insist on using it.) Spanish, French, and Italian are far simpler, and some African languages are extremely simple.
------------------ Well I'm a Bada$$ cowboy living in a cowboy day wicky-wicky-wak yo yo bang bang me and Artemus Clydefrog go save Selma Hayek from the big metal spider Wicky-wicky-wak wicky-wicky-wicky-wak Bada$$ cowboy from the West Si-yiide
posted
Well, English is complicated in spelling and syntax, but probably not grammar. French is painful. For easy-learning, you'd probably need to go to Esperanto/Ido.
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