posted
That's what I was thinking - just seeing what ye thought.
And I'll bet he didn't have a name - what I meant was that his species has been identified and named by the nerds out there that threaten to pervade all aspects of our lives, only to disrupt them with their nefarious plans which'll undoubtedly revolve around sperm banks, Type XX""DASEAWF)(*IIF phaser arrays, and HOT HAND SEXXOR. I'm sure turnips will get involved, what with the Non-Agression Pact between them and the Man Train obliging them to take action should Simon Sizer's Harbinger of Eclipses start throwing shapes. WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!
Don't mind that. I just started typing really really fast, and wasn't really paying attention to what I was typing.
------------------ At that point, McDonald fired his gun three times in the air to emphasize his point. The crowd, estimated at 350,000, loudly cheered the new candidate.
"Let me make this clear: I am the law! I am your ruler! And you will have fries with that, motherf*cker!"
posted
That really weird thing behind Kirk in Rura Pethe 13 looks kind of like a green Bill the Cat...
BTW, the Green guys may have another symbol, too. What could be their banner can be seen in Khitomer 1.
------------------ "Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. � Believe in nothing..." -Tool, �nima
[This message has been edited by TSN (edited April 02, 2001).]
posted
Seems to be a sunrise again. Should we call these people the Aurorans?
I doubt these all-human delegates really were just reporters. They had no recording gear evident, for one. And why so many, so inconveniently located for observation? And all human...
Unlike the other delegations, the Aurorans didn't seem to come in pairs (as the UFP races did) or in uniforms (as part of everybody else's delegations did). I can understand the Paramount desire to use as many simple humans as possible in the scene, but was there some deeper rationale to introducing this all-human faction?
All the Starfleeters here seem to be humans, which helps support this "Homo sapiens -only club" comment made earlier on. Were all the Aurorans humans for a similar reason? It shouldn't have been too difficult to insert just one or two alien-masked extras to the green stalls if the racial purity of the delegation wasn't intentional...
posted
Gaseous... YES! That wierd Yellow Cat thing with lizardy eyes... lizard with Cat eyes thingy... maybe it is a deformed Caitian!?!
Reguarding the Green people... it'd have to be people that HAD to be a Khitomer for a purpose...
Maybe they were the Khitomer residents!?! Maybe they were the Organians! They did stop the Klingons and the Feds from all out war... and they could be in their coporeal form at the moment...
or they could be just non-aligned observers...
ADDITION!
Look at the exterior shot of Khitomer... there is two huge-arsed pennants hanging off the building the one on the left is a light blue one - Federation I assume...
The one on the right... is ROMULAN!!!! Its fuzzy - but you can make out the Triangular shape and the two 'balls' of the twin homeworlds...
Another Addition!
look back on the first Khitomer page...
in 1. and 3. there is a yellow banner with an IDIC symbol...
then look in picture 2. Back, center there is a yellow banner with the ROMULAN logo on it... again that triangular/winged shape... we all know...
So are they trying to make out here that the Vulcans are NOT part of the Federation?
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited April 03, 2001).]
posted
There is another huge IDIC symbol hanging on some wall (not on any of this shots, AFAIK)
Here's one I prepared earlier :
First line of the President: "The UFP welcomes you to Camp Khitomer" Here's a theory more or less explaining Sarek's position and the RSE and UFP logos: The UFP and the KE want to sign a treaty on neutral grounds: a Federation outpost (Camp Khitomer) is temporarily made official Romulan territory (much like Camp Zeist in the Netherlands, which was officialy Scottish territory during the Lockerbie process). Sarek makes the arrangements with the RSE (and gets a seat in Nanclus' group).
The Green party is possibly a group of indepentants, or some society we never heard of. BTW, their logo seems to be a black globe with a white star behind it and something *on* the globe as well.
Khitomer pic 12 (the top view): In the lower right corner, are those two Zaranites? They never show up again.
Khitomer pic 2: Is that a Capellan standing directly behind the Starfleet admiralty? The man left-most of the dark blue bench seems to be copper-skinned...
There are only 3 known blue Federation races: Bolians, Andorians and Troyians. These *could* be Troyians. (Queen Amidala probably bought her hat in the same shop )
Are those two 'guards' behind the admiralty-stall the 'rocket-helmet' guys?
At the far left of this picture, there are green (or yellow? I'm colourblind) skinned people, with white hair. Have we seen something like that anywere else? (they look awkwardly familiar to me...)
Khitomer pic 4: Could the two blue aliens be of the same race? If so, why would they be dressed differently (both in Star Trek universe and behind-the-scenes explanations)?
Khitomer pic 5: That 'giant Hobbit' right of Scotty is definitely not a Tellarite. He is with the Romulans. Possibly a bodyguard type of guy. Anyway, he is not looking very interested
In the 23rd century Khitomer is a Romulan planet. This would explain why the Romulans attacked Khitomer in the 24th century. Maybe they tried to reconquer it. So the Romulans provided the planet, and the Federation was the organizer of the peace conference. As host the Federation furnished the conference room. Hence every stall has a UFP-logo.
A little bit disturbing are the big wall-symbols. Behind the green delegation this globe, the Klingon symbol behind the red stall, the UFP symbol behind the blue stalls, but the IDIC symbol behind the Romulan stall.
quote:142 Ext. Camp Khitomer, Romula - Day vfx The idyllic site of the Peace Coference. Lush green. A huge building on the horizon from within which we can hear music. Outside, masses of people and flags.... (Matte Painting)
Romula?
quote:142A Int. Camp Khitomer - Day Inside huge #1 pod doors opening, revealing the Council chamber. Very loud music as we follow the Federation Delegation (green), lead my Admiral Donald, into the room. Reverse on #2 pod doors opening, as Sarek leads the Vulcan Delegation (yellow) in as they take their places....
Oh my god. This would explain the IDIC and why Sarek sat in the yellow stall.
BTW: Nanclus' sash was part of his clothes. He wore it IIRC in the President's office too.
The "green" for Federation must be an error.
quote:145 Int. Camp Khitomer conference site - Day More of the opening ceremonies. Camera pans to reveal pod #3 with the Klingon delegation (brown) lead by their ambassador and pod #4, Earth (green) delegation emerging and taking their places.....the Klingon and UFP Presidents, complete with advisers, retinues, entourages and attendants. Flags are everywhere.... Among them is Colonel Worf, Brigadier Kerla, Admiral Donald, the Munitions businessman, and a Klingon face we haven't seen before..... The music thunders to a halt. The place looks like the UN security council + the Olympics. All color coded...
So the Aurorans are Terrans.
Well, I like this early version:
quote: Lt. Valeris Aft thrusters.....
Kirk (Overlaps) Thank you, Lieutenant, one quarter impulse power......
Lt. Valeris (She turns to face him) Captain, may I remind you that regulations specify thrusters only while in space dock?
The crew, old and young, watch this exchange keenly. Spock is poker faced.
McCoy (next to Chekov) Uh, Jim....
Kirk You heard the order, Lieutenant.
Lt. Valeris swivels away, rolling her eyes so Kirk can't see, and hits the panel....
The ship begins to rattle slightly, then the Enterprise screams out of the dock and exits through the just opening bay doors into outer space.
Kirk sits comfortably with a smile on his face
Kirk (Continuing) Lieutenant.....
Lieutenant Valeris faces him.
Kirk (Continuing) I don't care if I am senile. If I sit in this chair and give the word, you jump!
posted
Okay, so the green delegation could very well be Earthlings... This makes the Federation of the late 23rd century look quite unegalitarian, what with an all-human Starfleet representation, a separate Earth delegation, and then this Noah's Pairs of Assorted Aliens collection.
(Or perhaps this is the Greenpeace delegation, making sure that no trees are harmed in the creation of the peace accords?)
If the Greens are Earthlings, then perhaps the Yellows are actually Vulcans, with Nanclus invited to join them for the duration of the meeting, but with the rest of the Romulans kept out? In that case, it would be a bit difficult to explain all those BoP logos, though. Unless those are originally Vulcan logos, simply appropriated by the Romulans later on - Vulcan could be a double planet, too, as fanfic has often stated. Sounds unlikely, though (the appropriation of the logo, not the twin planet hypothesis).
It is actually quite entertaining to think that Sarek might share more sympathies with Nanclus than with the Federation... But would he want to state that in such blatant terms?
posted
Well, remember that that was an early version of the script... clearly he thinks that Vulcans aren't part of the Federation, they most definately are.
Also there is the problem of the Smiling "Vulcan(s)" in some of those 'clapping' pictures... I presume they are Romulans... Maybe at Spock's (Sarek's in Spock's abscence) behest - a combined sitting of Romulan and Vulcan parties?? A prelude to Unification which actually aired before the Release of TUC.
No one likes my idea of the Green-sashed people being the Organians?
Also, there are many discrepencies between the 'early script' above and the 'filmed version' so I'd take that with a very small grain of salt... maybe just one molecule of NaCl...
In reply to: The 'hobbit'/'tellarite' -> he does look interested he's standing up looking at what is going on... He looks like the Tellarites from Star Trek: IV... which didn't look EXACTLY like the TOS Tellarites...
Also, I don't believe that the UFP part is 'indicative' of the complete members of the UFP... since, well there aren't even as many different races as the Star Trek: IV scene...
Can someone get some screen caps of that... like these above pics... There are some 'Vulcans' there I'd like to put forward as being a Romulan presence.
Also, I liked how they reused the Klingon Ambassador from Star Trek IV... Charles Shuck?? (The actor was also in "Muse" [VGR]
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
quote:Well, remember that that was an early version of the script... clearly he thinks that Vulcans aren't part of the Federation, they most definately are.
Why? Because the Vulcans have their own delegation? Then Earth wouldn't be a Federation member too.
quote:Also there is the problem of the Smiling "Vulcan(s)" in some of those 'clapping' pictures...
posted
Timo, about the all-human SF delegation: you are wrong about that (luckily!). In the scene just before Bones arrests Nanclus, we see a Vulcan Amdmiral running very close to the camera.
posted
OK, about the reasoning that the person thought that maybe the Vulcans weren't members... maybe that Green group aren't humans - or the what colour did that first script give the 'humans'... WHY did he specifically have separate groups for Vulcans and Humans out of the REST of the UFP delegation!?!
Lets ignore that early version... if gives us a nice look into the background though.
So here is what I would LIKE to think at the moment.
1. Federation - Blue, Klingons - Red. 2. Vulcans and Romulans sitting together!?! At the behest of Spock/Sarek - remember Spock met Pardek at Khitomer. 3. The other humans... could have been Organians in corporeal form, or the press or the actual people who lived on that planet...
also, why didn't we see any other 'well known' races from TOS there - well particularly the Andorians?
Maybe it was only UFP members that were from around the boarders of the Klingon/Federation and the Romulan/Federation boarders?
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
posted
The size of the representation in the initial reception was probably limited, so that a lot was drawn in the Federation delegation to see who could sit there during Ra-Ghotarei's speech and who would get to attend some later meetings. Pardek wasn't in the hall, either...
The Feds would probably be sending out some sort of a "security council" type delegation, with permanent and rotating members in it, UN style. A very formal affair, with two representatives from each culture. In addition, there would be some random observers from outside this security council, but not necessarily in the opening reception.
If the Feds sent only those races that bordered on the Klingons, they would probably risk having some of those conduct secret negotiations with the Klingons for "separate peace" or other special arrangements... A unified security council with "neutral" UFP races in it would be a more stabilizing influence and a better negotiation tool.
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