quote:actually, that ship looks alot like a vor'cha class BOP, like the ones seen in "End Game".
OK. As nicely as I can, I will explain some things to you.
1. The Vor'cha class is a battlecruiser, not a BoP.
2. The Vor'cha class was not seen in "Endgame." Those were Negh'var/Voodieh class ships.
3. Since Spike's joke obviously went over your head, suffice it to say that that pic IS a Vor'cha, turned upside down. The point of Spike's joke (and correct me if I'm wrong, Spike) was that since the NX-01 looks like an Akira with the nacelles pointed upward, so this new ship will look like a 24th century Klingon ship with the nacelles pointed upward.
There, I'm finished.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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very nice.. i was wondering who would explain this one..
by the way, Vor'Cha is an attack cruiser, not a battle-cruiser.
But it sure as hell isnt a Bird of Prey.. those are much smaller vessels
StupidFan47: But Mike, the DS9 Tech manual says that the upsized BOP is 10 times the size of the other ships, with a crew of 1,500.
*uses phaser to rearrange StupinFan47's grey matter**uses DS9 TechManual as silencer*
where were we?
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In one of the last episodes of DS9, Gowron in a conference with other Klingon 'generals', for a better word, called the Vor'Cha Class ships, "battlecruisers". IOW, canon says Vor'Cha are battlecruisers, not attack cruisers.
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So? Worf said in "Way of the Warrior" that it *was* a Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. And has been doing so as far back as the fourth season of TNG (the one where Geordi got brainwashed), when he called it an attack cruiser (no name).
So, either Martok was gaffing, or perhaps there was a variant of the Vor'Cha that was classified as a battlecruiser. Or Klingons called 'em battlecruisers and Starfleet calls 'em Attack Cruisers. Or the Vor'Cha could be called either interchangeably. Who knows?
posted
So what's the real-world story behind these designations?
In WWII terms, a "battlecruiser" is called that because it's a hybrid between "battleship" and "cruiser" - it has the mission and armament of the former, or at least aspires to this, while it's only protected by the feeble armor of the latter. And while the words "battleship" and "cruiser" have their own complex origins, they are refreshingly logical and descriptive: a battleship is a ship that does not shy away from battle with its peers, while a cruiser is a vessel that would prefer to cruise around, hunting for easy targets or relaying targeting information, and not engage in battle against other warships unless numerically superior. A battlecruiser then is a cruiser that boldly goes to battle (think Steven Seagal's "combat chef" roles for a similar contradiction in terms).
"Attack cruiser" doesn't sound as if it could be such a hybrid between two established ship types, a cruiser and an "attack-something" - mainly because there is no established type known as "attack-something". It sounds more like a simple alternate spelling for "battlecruiser", and would probably be identical to one.
"Strike cruiser", however, has historical origins. In practice, I think it's a cruiser that doesn't have the battleship-like armament of a battlecruiser, but nevertheless is sent out to engage enemy capital ships in a more or less suicidal manner. That is, a cruiser becomes a strike cruiser when the captain receives new orders and kisses his ass goodbye. One could say that the Klingon attack cruiser is closer to this in concept than to a battlecruiser, considering that it has not demonstrated tactical or technological superiority to what the Feds consider a mere "heavy cruiser" (say, Ambassador).
Or one could pull out of the discussion before it turns into yet another Trek ship designation argument...
posted
Err, Dukhat, I haven't seen "Endgame" yet, but didn't you think of "All good things"? Were there really Voodieh/k class ships in "Endgame" too?
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
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Yes, there were Voodieh class ships in both "All Good Things..." and "Endgame." I'm sorry if I spoiled that for you. I was under the impression that everyone has seen "Endgame" by now.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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posted
Yes, but what does that have to do with the thread topic?
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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Well the aliens who wore those masks in ST:TMP were Zaranites, not Xaranites. And that pic is of a character from ST:IV who is wearing a Zaranite mask but doesnt have Zaranite makeup on (i.e. a huge bulbous forehead).. it seems like it is also possible that there is a supplier of facemasks in the Federation that sold facemasks to both the Zaranties and whoever else this is, .. seems more likely then there being to wildly different looking Zaranites in my opinion
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what the hell does this have to do with sleeping dogs anyway?
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The newest ST:The Magazine has a picture of a pre-TOS Klingon ship which, from what I've heard, was apparently supposed to be the Klingon ship seen in "Unexpected," but wasn't used because they couldn't CGI it in time, or something. Of course I don't know the veracity of this info, but if I get the copy, I'll scan the pic & email it to someone to post here.
Oops...it's not ST:The Magazine, it's ST Communicator. And the pic is only a drawing. And I must say that the ship didn't look much like a 22nd century ship anyway.
Some more info: According to the Communicator, the Vulcan ship Ti'Muur is indeed a Suurok-class ship, not a Surak-class.
Also, The Magazine will finally have an article about the Freedom & Niagara class ships in next month's issue, although the Fact Files had this information for years. I'm curious as to just what, if any, new info we will get from the article.
[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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Dukhat, thanx for the info. No, you didn't spoil Endgame for me, rather the contrary. I like spoiler information. You know, I'm one of those sad-acts not living in the U.S. or the U.K. and therefor won't be able to see Endgame anytime soon. Actually, it might still be months before SAT1 will air the show here in Germany.
-------------------- Lister: Don't give me the "Star Trek" crap! It's too early in the morning. - Red Dwarf "The Last Day"
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Actually, shrink it down by quite a bit, remove all the surface details, and you have a kind of nice upswung scoutish looking thing.
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