posted
I don't think we're thinking big enough. In a post-scarcity world (that is, for most goods and services), things like gift economies or reputation economies start to look much more attractive, especially if one has enough processing power to keep track of all the relevant information.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I think Timo and Harry have it - but I don't think they're thinking big enough yet.
This system of economics would apply for all Federation member planets. It may well be one of the main criteria for membership - setting up an advanced and enlightened economy (obviously, a planet would need a world government first). And you'd need a highly-industrialized tech base to implement it.
-------------------- 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.' - Lazarus Long
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Anyone read Ken MacLeod? Most of Earth in The Cassini Division might be a decent model. I've never read any of the other Fall Revolution novels, so I don't know if they all feature that particular economy. For that matter, how about Ursula LeGuin's anarchosocialism in The Dispossessed, minus the anarchy? There are countless post-capitalist money-free economies in non-Trek sf.
posted
Re: MacLeod: I believe each book is set in a different location.
I think a better example would be Banks' Culture, which is a bit like what the Federation might be if it let its hair down.
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posted
Well, the four MacLeod Fall Revolution books form a rough series, with The Star Fraction being a sort-of precursor, followed by The Stone Canal and ending with The Cassini Division; the fourth book, The Sky Road, is a parallel-universe to what might have come about by TCD. Only in TCD is the post-libertarian anarchy really mentioned or described in depth.
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I think a better example would be Banks' Culture, which is a bit like what the Federation might be if it let its hair down.
Banks is next up on my reading list... never read him before.
posted
It occurs to me, if Earth in 2150 is still using money, that the NX-01's mission is probably costing a lot. Could we see the rise of some sort of Proxmire figure, criticising the policy of exploration?
posted
I'd think that the first requirement for daring to claim that poverty has been eliminated would be to make social security independent of things like defense spending. That is, no matter what your overall budget, social security is fixed, secured, *sacred*: let your defenses fall, your labs shut down, but never ever let the soup, soap and salivation run out (or the taxes rise even a smidgen).
This would take a bit of oomph out of complaints that defense/science/infrastructure spending is eating up funds, because it would be eating up funds from other defense/science/infrastructure spending only. The anti-exploration faction couldn't point to Lil' Orphan Tim with the missing eye and three wooden legs when fishing for sympathy - the money going to "nonessentials" would be away from the same "nonessentials". Which of course wouldn't remove budgetary tugs-of-war, but would make them less emotional in the populist sense. And less appealing for dramatic presentation.
quote:Originally posted by Timo: I'd think that the first requirement for daring to claim that poverty has been eliminated would be to make social security independent of things like defense spending. That is, no matter what your overall budget
Budget, my shiny rear... The only way to get rid of poverty is to make social security self-sufficient, the only way to do that is to make every member of the society self-sufficient.
I think that a third world war and nuclear holocaust would teach a significant portion of the world's population to be self-sufficient, and the rest [living in an incredibly awful world without much of a support mechanism] would fall to the way side. When there is no longer a portion of society draining the resources from the rest [social security and other welfare programs] you free up a significant portion of the society's resources--- programs concerning exploration become quite a bit more compatible with everyone's world view, leaving separatists and isolationists to argue with.
It's not a matter of separating the funds of the different types of programs it's a matter of completely erasing the need for such programs. Defense will always be necessary because there will be an unknown out there that might harm [whether that be a natural disaster, a war, or criminal activity, defense is necessary]. Social programs will not always be necessary, even the original champion said that such programs were temporary to get people out of the Depression [paraphrase FDR].
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
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Cutting money for social security is what leads men to live in wheelchairs with only a blinking light to communicate with.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Cutting money for social security is what leads men to live in wheelchairs with only a blinking light to communicate with.
I'd beg to differ... Pike wouldn't be alive if not for the Federation's government care. In the beginning of course both freeloader and legitimate would have been at a loss [this would have been prior to Enterprise], but people's senses would return to them and those who have legitimate problems would again receive support [This would be during Enterprise, though some people would still have problems... by TOS it would be normal, so Pike's situation was the best the Federation could provide for his condition (remember Pike was extremely injured, he should have died)].
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
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