quote:One of the reasons that I never really did anything with the Romulans, besides the fact that people didn't really seem to be very interested in them in Nemesis, it that we couldn't do anything with the Romulans.
That's stupid... Nemesis was not a Romulan movie... it was a Reman movie. For all the hype about the Romulans that were in it no wonder people didn't like it, because the Romulans were barely in it. It's like saying the Breen were major players during the last season of DS9--- compared with the Klingons, Cardassians, Dominion, Bajorans... AND the Romulans, they weren't. All those others had much more story than the Breen ever did. _____________
As for any one example, I'd point to the Klingons however that would start an argument. I would point to the Ferengi but that would start an argument. I would point to the Borg, but he copped out of that one.
He's correct in saying that they haven't blantantly come out and down something as stupid as saying "Kirk doesn't exist." I give them at least that little much credit--- but they do like to step on people's toes. If it were my show I would try to appease my core audience a little harder than they do.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
I think the issue of continuity is being used as a straw man by Braga and defenders of Enterprise. I agree that Enterprise has managed to not violate continuity too badly if one takes a highly legalistic view of continuity. But Braga seems to be saying that if you can't find any continuity errors, then you have no valid reason to complain about the show.
Braga's contention that the poor box office of Nemesis reflects lack of interest in the Romulans is also a bit disingenuous, don't you think? He seems to be suggesting that the use of the Romulans was the main reason Nemesis lost money.
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Registered: Oct 1999
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quote: Personally I cannot see how they will evolve into being the Vulcans we see in TOS.
You mean the ones who live on an apparently primitive planet and can't get through a wedding without trying to hack each others' limbs off?
Not that I really disagree with the thrust of this argument, but TOS presented us with Spock, a unique case, his father, and then whatever it was that was going on in "Amok Time," and from those three samples I don't think you can derive anything like a master guide to How Vulcans Have Always Been.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I was speaking mostly on their wide spread use of telepathy, so much so that Spock, as a half-Vulcan is capable of "feeling" the dead of the minds of 400 Vulcans over a distance of lightyears, or mind melding with space probes and rock monsters, where only 100 years earlier mind melds were the Vulcan equivelant of butt sex, is quite a vast expanse to cross is such little time. If the Vulcans in the Enterprise era are repressing that much potential telepathic-melding horsepower, and their brains have the physical equivelant to 'blue balls' or something, then I can understand why they are such pricks; otherwise, I think the way they act now contrasts a lot from what we got from TOS, Spock and the movies.
There is however, one 'modern' Trek example of Vulcan that comes to mind fitting the Enterprise-era Vulcan model, as far as being antagonistic, that being Captain Solok (??, the baseball Vulcan) or Ch'pok (the sniper Vulcan). But aside from him, there haven't really been may other asshole Vulcans; unless they were intentionally meant to be that, they seem to share this whole other personae altogether, such as Spock, Tuvok, Sarek and Saavik.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Except that maybe, just maybe, all Vulcans don't have the same personality?
And if I recall, in "Dagger of the Mind", the first time Spock does a mindmeld he mentions that it's a deeply personal thing that Vulcans hate doing because it's icky and horrible.
Of course, he then starts doing it on a bi-weekly basis, but there you go.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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100 years ago - where were we as a human race. What has changed in our society in the last 100 years?
100 years ago - we didn't even dream of going to the moon. And we did in less than 70 years.
70 years ago - we barely embraced the idea of travelling without a horse to draw our carriages. Now we can fly, drive, and jump out of planes.
The very thought of same-sex couples was blasphemous. Now gay and lesbian couples can get married (at least in Canada they can). I throw that in because I see the Ent: Vulcan Psionics thing akin to this kind of prejudice.
The idea of one believing in mystics and witch-craft was punishable by burning; now it's a religion !
in 100 years.. we have changed so much...
Who's to say that the vulcan's (a much more evolved and more intelligent race) can't change their idealisms about psionics being dark-magics - to something that is embraced and accepted.
Frankly - i think in 40 years.. their society and idealism can change DRAMATICALLY!
posted
While I firmly agree with the idea that cultures can and do change so much within the space of a century that they wouldn't recognize themselves, I must point out that one would have more than a little trouble finding a witch burning in 1903. 1903!
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:anxious establishment debated the best charge to lay against this dangerous war criminal Helen Duncan . One her first appearance before the Portsmouth magistrates she had been charged under the catchall act of Vagrancy. This was later amended to one of Conspiracy which, in wartime Britain , carried the ultimate sentence of death by hanging. But by the time the case had been referred to England's central criminal court - know as the Old Bailey - the charge had been changed yet again . This time to one of witchcraft and an old Act of 1735 had been dredged out of the dusty law libraries .
Under this ancient rune Helen Duncan and her innocent sitters wer accused of pretending 'to exercise or use human conjuration that through the agency of Helen Duncan spirits of deceased dead persons should appear to be present'.
posted
I didn't say it was impossible. I mean, a very popular campaign tactic in, I believe, Nigeria today is to claim that your opponent is sacrificing children to give himself magical powers of electability. And forget witch burning; the twentieth century invented its own forms of very impressive institutional evil. I'm just saying that witches are kind of an odd and archaic example.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
a very popular campaign tactic in, I believe, Nigeria today is to claim that your opponent is sacrificing children to give himself magical powers of electability
This is different from the US?
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Topic Closed
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Not the best example.. hehe.
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