The issue is this: this is a nuclear powered ship that could take years to travel to the nearest planet. How could a ship this slow travel 20 lightyears plus from Earth to the Gamma 400 star system in 200 years? She couldn't. The S.S. Botany Bay would be somewhere between Alpha Centauri and Sol. And a ship of UESPA or the Federation would have found her within decades of her launch.

After reading the above, you are wondering why I said Gamma 400 star system. During the course of the show, after the S.S. Botany Bay is discovered, both ships travel at impulse to Starbase 12. If Starbase 12 is in another system, then both ships would have a very long journey of years. Adding to this, both ships are illuminated by a bright light source. From what I have seen of Star Trek, ships travel at warp between planets, nebula, quasars, etc. They never travel at impulse between these astronomical bodies, unless forced to by necessity or emergencies. And in solar systems, ships travel at impulse except in selected cases where warp is preferable.

Further, there is a major contradiction between this episode and two other episodes-"Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Metamorphoses". According to these shows, warp drive was available and in use in the 1990's. The S.S. Botany Bay would have to be warp powered to travel the distances shown in the episode.

Third, the nature of the launch. Mr. Okuda suggested that the S.S. Botany Bay was launched on boosters. This is very photographic; however, I believed it to be flawed. The Saturn V, a rocket measuring approximately 110 meters, required 7.5 million pounds of thrust. This has been proven to be the threshold of rocketry. No other rocket has successfully attempted to surpass the Saturn V in size or thrust.

S.S. Botany Bay is somewhat larger than the Saturn V. This is demonstrated in what I believe to be one of the best scaling shots in the whole franchise. Early in "Space Seed", we see the S.S. Botany Bay travel alongside the U.S.S. Enterprise. The U.S.S. Enterprise is 290 meters long. If the S.S. Botany Bay is slightly larger than the engineering hull of the Federation starship, this would make her length approximately 145 meters, a gain or loss of some meters. The boosters would add additional meters. Thus, the entire package would be approximately 175 meters, a gain or loss of some meters. To lift this package, the thrust would have to be greater than the Saturn V. This I feel is impossible.

I envision the S.S. Botany Bay to be like the Discovery of 2001. Both ships are constructed in space and sent on long distance missions. For the crew's well-being, they are put into stasis until the ship arrives at its destination.

There are of course other issues. The dating of the Eugenics War is one of the other issues.

To solve the issues mentioned here and the other issues, I propose a solution.

In the years between 2063 and 2113, there was a final world war.
Evidence-Spock said the war was the last global war in "Space Seed". He didn't give a number. Troi in "First Contact" said in fifty years that there will be no war. Fifty years from 2063 is 2113.

This war is the Eugenics War. The War lasted four years.
Evidence-Dates in "Space Seed". 1992 is the first year. 1996 is the last year.

At the end of the war, Khan and his people seized a warp capable ship that could achieve warp 1. This ship belonged to the DY-100 class. These ships were constructed in the same decade as the war. More improved classes would follow after the war. Her technology didn't permit her to have adequate supplies for the crew and passengers on a long mission, so her crew and passengers were placed into stasis. (This may give an idea of the S.S. Valiant. Her crew may have been placed into stasis until their encounter with the galactic barrier.) Evidence-Distance covered in "Space Seed". Compability with other evidence from original show (see above). Class and construction period from "Space Seed".
S.S. Valiant from "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

This ship traveled tens of lightyears. At some point, the ship entered into the Gamma 400 star system. Soon after, a Federation starship made contact.
Evidence-"Space Seed"

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

Also, have we ever had an actual onscreen reference to a "World War III"? All the dialogue I can remember on the subject refers to a "Third World War", which can be interpreted in more than one way. A war in -- or heavily involving -- the Third World being one of the most intriguing...

The Eugenincs Wars were not this Third World War. From what we can glean, much of the world's populace was unaware of these "wars", as they involved seriously closed-door intrigues and politicking and power playing. The defeat of the genetic supermen, however, evidently did set the stage for the Third World War, as it seemed to follow the Eugenics Wars closely, but not right on the heels of Khan's departure.

And if the Botany Bay did a double slingshot around Jupiter and Saturn (or maybe even the sun), followed by a protracted burn of whatever the primary propulsion system was, they might have gotten up to an appreciable percentage of lightspeed and been coasting at what for us would be mid-to-high-impulse speeds by the time the Enterprise found her.

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

I am aware of the differences.

When I wrote this piece, I include observations and paraphrasing of dialogue. This is common on this site. Some of these observations involve real world science.

The Eugenics War is stated very clearly by Spock to be the last global war. This war was not done behind closed doors. Cities and nations were being destroyed.

Considering our knowledge of the Star Trek universe, the Eugenics War makes more sense if placed after the Third World War. The Third World War caused massive damage and killed 600 billion. In this carnage, hundreds of genetically breed humans could have taken control of 3/4 of the world's population. In the beginning, they were seen as a blessing. Later, the populace would have seen them as tyrants intent on control and seizing other territories. The populace rebelled and overthrew the dictators. One dictator survived with his followers.

Further, Peregrinus, you said that the S.S. Botany Bay would have gotten a boost from the sling shot effect. I read in an article that as a ship enters the Kuiper Belt, the ship slows down. This is proved by the probes we have sent over the past twenty years. The S.S. Botany Bay would have slowed down and would have been eventually found by a passing ship.

I, therefore, postulated that the S.S. Botany Bay was a warp capable ship with a very low warp. She could travel 20 plus light years in 200 years with warp.

To go to the beginning, I don't see how my observations, opinions, and use of dialogue is any different than any else on this forum. Yet Peregrinus, you opinioned that I don't know the difference. I know the difference. Please read my piece again closely. Thank you.

I enjoyed writing this piece and hope to hear more voices.

I don't understand why it's necessary to have warp drive in order to travel 20 light years in 200 years. Seems you'd only need to go 1/10th the speed of light ro do that in the time indicated. Or am I missing something here?

I agree that the Botany Bay could not be booster launched. Remember that the massive Saturn V's three stages were required just to get the tiny Apollo capsule, serice module and LEM to the Moon. To push something the size and mass of the Enterprise engineering hull into orbit (something clearly thousands of times the mass of an Apollo capsule) is unreasonable.

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To know a thing well, know its limits. Only when pushed beyond its tolerances will true nature be seen.
The Amtal Rule (Dune)
---
Titan Fleet Yards - Harry Doddema's Star Trek Site

Also, the Enterprise would most likely have been capable of towing other ships at warp speeds. Many races have demonstrated this ability in TOS and in other shows, and there's nothing explicit to say that such towing was beyond Starfleet's abilities. So SB 12 could be far away from the area of discovery. We know SB 12 is near Pollux, judging by "Who Mourns For Adonais", so Khan might have been heading in this direction.

I still don't see how "Where No Man" or "Metamorphosis" would put warp speed into the 1990s. Sure, they do that if one assumes that they took place about half a century earlier than Okuda dating puts them. But the case for such dating doesn't seem to be any stronger than that for Okuda dating - these episodes themselves certainly never mention any fixed dates, only relative ones.

Finally, liftoff of an intact DY-100 should be an easy feat for the kind of rocketry that launched Cochrane's Phoenix. One could say that Cochrane's technology was superior to that of the 1990s; or one could say that the DY-100s had access to this same technology. The Saturn V was based on the best one could do by burning kerosene. A simple upgrade to air-breathing technology and more energetic fuels would step up the capacity, not to mention forgetting about oxidizers and chemical reactions altogether and going straight for fission heating or somesuch.

Did you say they killed 600 billion?. Um, that's killing everyone on the earth like 100 times over!

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH

Based on the dialogue from "Space Seed", I would say that the war occured in the late 21st century. The Eugenics War is the last global war of Earth before world governments began forming in the early 22nd century-ex. European Hegemony. And furthermore, this would work with the general context of the original series that the Eugenics War was in the time period when warp drive was first being used.

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory

As for why Khan thought he came from 200 years previous, rather than 300, perhaps Kirk either misspoke, or deliberately deceived Khan for some reason. The former is more likely. I'm guessing Khan was simply told "200 years", so he believed it, because no-one ever mentioned the actual year to him.

As for the Botany Bay... Perhaps it was launched from space, and those "boosters" were actually just normal rockets. They could have slingshotted 'round Jupiter and Saturn, then used the rockets to speed their way through the Kuiper Belt and avoid being slowed down.

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Star Trek Gamma Quadrant
Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted)
***
"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
-Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
****
"The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families."
--Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?

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I will shout until they know what I mean.
--
Neutral Milk Hotel
****
Read three (three!) chapters of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Then, go insane!

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"No, 3 & 6 are mandatory, so you only have to do them if you want"

--Jonah

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"It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."

--Col. Edwards, ROBOTECH