------------------ Kryten: Pub? - Ah yes. A meeting place where people attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks. - Red Dwarf "Timeslides"
posted
Hey, if you look at the top of the engineering set in this pic: http://members.aol.com/WMccullars/GemKirk6.html it looks like the curve might intend it to be the top of the secondary hull curve? Hmm.. Gotta check my 1701 cutaway again.
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posted
I agree, Zor. The vaulted ceiling would suggest engineering is at the top of the secondary hull rather than in the primary hull by the impulse deck. Of course, the cutaways and blueprints are all non-canon, so are not "proof" one way or another.
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posted
Maybe yes, maybe no. The braces are curved, but the actual ceiling above them is unseen and may be curved or flat. But notice also that the braces to not get lower as they go aft, so unless Main Engineering is right forward in the secondary hull (very likely for other reasons as well), it's probably a deck or three down from the strongback. This is one of the vagueries I'm trying to resolve.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
I don't think engineering is supposed to be right at the top of the secondary hull, it's at least a couple decks down I would think. Take a look at the 1701 cutaway poster, they seem to have placed it at a proper "height" within the hull. So, maybe the frame members (if indeed that's what those braces looking things are in the photo), are not all the same, the bottom of each one is at even height, but the tops follow the hull slope. The frame members go down a couple decks before they reach the top of engineering. Maybe I'll model it in 3d and see how realistic it looks. Also, seeing that photo makes me think that the designers of the set probably imagined it being in the secondary hull, so curved the braces, but didn't think to include the detail of it following the hull slope. Look at the problem of the turbolist on the bridge. On the exterior model, it's at centreline, but on the set, it's offset (because it works better on film), but when you put the 2 together, you have to offset the bridge 36 degrees like Franz Joseph did to make the 2 things work. Let me do a bit of modeling and send you a pic and see what you think.
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The square thing inside is where engineering would be probably, and the blue things are possible hull framemembers. Way too think I know, but see how it angles down along the hull, yet on the bottom of them, they are equal. Thought this might help visualize things.
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There is a TOS marathon on here in Australia at the moment, and if you see "The Enemy Within"...? The one where there are two Kirks... Spock asks Kirk where would HE go to avoid being found... and Kirk says "the lower decks, the engineering deck"... and then later on while in Engineering we see the roof because there is a shot of Kirk (bad) on top of those 'barrels'... what ARE they anyway?
Does anyone get the feeling of Engineering, not being symmetrical?
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
posted
As I believe I pointed out earlier, that's because the Engineering SET is only the starboard half of the "REAL" Engineering -- that is, what we see is mirrored in the direction usually "behind" the camera. Scotty's second-level office, seen in a few episodes, essentially straddles the centreline.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
The "Enemy Within" evidence supports a secondary-hull location because the question asked of Kirk is "where would you go to avoid being found?", to which he replies "the lower levels, engineering". Why merely hide in the lower levels of the saucer section when you could go even deeper and hide in the secondary hull?
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Mostly I believe this because the ceiling braces start low on the "starboard" wall of the set and curve gracefully up to the "port" side of the set. Give me a rational scenario where this would represent the entirety of a centerline-mounted room...
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
Ohh, so you mean the big machinery things that look to be on the left side on engineering, usually behind the camera, and pulled aside in the behind the scenes gemkirk photo, are really in the centre of the room, and the wall with the stairs going up is mirrored on the other side. Sounds like a nifty idea. What happens with the big orange things behind the screen? Another one is duplicated too?
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posted
I actually, did think of the whole mirrored idea too, but what stopped me short of mentioning it, was the 'pipes' behind that screen... Could they be what are going up to the Nacelles? I originally thought that they were then the centre line of the Engineering set, but I guess, that they are then mirrored... and the pipes that go toward the middle, could go horizontal for a little bit and continue up to the other nacelle...
Also, I agree, that this could be one half, because that 'upper' level we see that runs along the side of the wall??
Maybe then in TMP, the 'set that we see' is like the 'pipes' but the 'wall' and 'screens' were knocked out and we get the whole set... and see the 'length' of the engineering set?
What about in "The Conscience of the King" was see Lt. Riley in a very very large room in "Engineering" is that the 'front' part?????
I'm enjoying this Marathon, more on tonight and tomorrow night!
I watched them all last night!
Andrew!
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
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