posted
Yeah, but a coal powered warpship would have the environmentalists up in arms. :-) Intruguing thoughts. One problem though. The plasma itself is passed through the warp coils. Eventually, the supply in the PTC's will run out. There needs to be some way of replenishing the plasma supply when the ratio of M/AM is 1:1, and I don't think they'd drop the ratio back to 25:1.
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
As we all know, there's only one ratio of matter to antimatter ...
1:1
::smirk::
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 *** "I think this reason why girls don't do well on multiple choice tests goes all the way back to the Bible, all the way back to Genesis, Adam and Eve. God said, 'All right, Eve, multiple choice or multiple orgasms, what's it going to be?' We all know what was chosen" - Rush Limbaugh, Feb. 23, 1994.
posted
Daniel: That's what I was saying... Maybe, until warp 8 is reached, the plasma runs out and has to be replenished using that high ratio. But, for whatever reason, once warp 8 is reached, the plasma that's already there stays there, as long as it is always re-energized. Thus, the 1:1 ratio at warp 8.
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
Axiom: Crusher stated that the ratio of reactants is always 1:1.
I postulate that although the ratio of reactants remains the same as warp speed goes up (even though for every integer of warp factor we increase, we increase an integer of matter/antimatter consumption, there is another amount of deuterium injected into the core that is NOT a reactant - but is placed there specifically to provide the "plasma" as it is heated and ionized by the matter/antimatter reacion - and then carries the liberated energy to the warp coils.
A given amount of gas will reach higher pressure if it is exposed to more energy. At warp factor 1, the amount of "non-reactant" deuterium far outmeasures that of "reactant" deuterium. As the warp factor/energy release increases, the amount of "non-reactant" deuterium injected decreases as the vessel's speed increases, until at warp 1 the amount of "non-reactant" deuterium is equal to the amount of "reactant" deuterium".
In this scenario, everyone is happy. Crusher is correct, in that the REACTANTS are always at a 1:1 ratio. The Technical Manual is correct, in that the ratio of deuterium to antimatter injected decreases as warp speed increases.
This is henceforth to be known as the "Schmidt Theory of Wishy-Washy Compromise Deuterium Intermix Formula".
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posted
Well, obviously the bits that actually annihilate one another are always 1:1. But I was trying to explain why extra deuterium is added at lower warp levels, and, one warp 8 is reached, it's only the equal parts matter and antimatter that are injected...
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
And I respectfully submit that this cannot be so. All that would remain downstream at the warp coil end would be energy (photons) - no plasma. There has to be some extra deuterium. Not a lot (even at warp 7, we are only talking about a few grams of antimatter and twice that of deuterium per second [I worked it out in another thread]), but there MUST be some.
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posted
Why? If the deuterium out in the nacelles stays there, all you'd have to do is keep re-energizing it. Who says it "goes away"?
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
It "goes away" if it cools down. Subjected to temperatures far below 0 degrees C, this would ultimately happen. Also, the plasma is fired into the nacelle in bursts. it is not a continuous stream. This is how they control the warp field.
------------------ "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
posted
If it cools down, it just turns back into deuterium (liquid or gas, I'm not sure). If you shoot a burst of energy in there, it turns back into plasma.
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
Yes, but subsequent re-energization (pulse after pulse of annihilations) would quickly heat it past the pressure required/allowed. Simpler to vent it. Also, we know that starships in warp do vent warp plasma - that is what causes the damage. And they leave an ion trail (cooled plasma would still be ionized). As was said in an earlier thread, the amount of molecules vented per cubic kilometer would be miniscule - thinner than a comet's tail.
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"Yes, but subsequent re-energization (pulse after pulse of annihilations) would quickly heat it past the pressure required/allowed."
Erm... Why?
------------------ "Although, from what I understand, having travelled around the Mid-west quite a bit, apparently Jesus is coming, so I guess the choice now is we should decide whether we should spit or swallow." -Maynard James Keenan
posted
Ok folks here's the deal. All the numbers being thrown around apply to the Enterprise -D. Second the extra deuterium has nothing to do with the plasma. With a core operating temp of 2.5 million Kelvin the H2 would be fused into helium4, and even at that temperature we might see the He4 fusing into whatever. The reason for that additional deuterium is simple. Just cause a matter and a anti-matter particle is present doesn't mean that they will find each other (they have proved this mathematically in the real world). So to insure total destruction of the anti-matter you over saturate the M/ARC with deuterium, it would be real bad if stray anti-matter exploded down stream on the PTC or something. Why does it ever go 1:1 I don't know I do know that it is stressful for a starship to go "balls to the wall" for too long before it needs the engine shut down for maintenance, probable anti-matter damage?
Back to the point though did Zeek use anti-matter? I would like to think not. And for my reasoning I leave you with this though? How in HELL did he make it?!!! He could have made large amounts of Deuterium (I can do it in my chem lab at the university I go to), and it is conceivable that he would be able to create a small fusion reactor to drive his ship. But how did he create anti-matter in a post apoclyptic world. Even in the 24th century the creation of anti-matter is no small feat. (See section 5.7 of the NG:TM if you want to argue this)
As for the comment about the chemical rocket driving the ship to near luminal velocities. How do you think an Impulse engine works. The warp fields were active upon separation from the missile reducing the ships mass towards infinite zero so it could jump the light barrier lower mass easier to push the ship. (One point I have argued that the warp drive did not actually drive the ship as it does for later ships, but instead the subspace field lowered the mass of the ship to apparent zero and the Newtonian engine pushed the ship to warp one.)
Notice no witty signature here!!!
[This message has been edited by Gammera (edited May 02, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Gammera (edited May 02, 2001).]
posted
Okay, look. This is how it works according to the TNG:TM. The properties of dilithium are given as follows:
"This is the only material known to Federation science to be nonreactive with antimatter when subjected to a high-frequency electromagnetic (EM) field in the megawatt range, rendering it "porous" to antihydrogen. Dilithium permits the antihydrogen to pass directly through its crystalline structure without actually touching it, owing to the dynamo effect created in the added iron atoms."
"There are two distinct reaction mdes. The first involves the generation of high levels of energy channeled to the electro plasma system, much like a standard fusion reaction, to provide raw energy for the ship to function while a sublight."
"The second mode makes full use of dilithium's ability to cause a partial suspension of the reaction, creating the critical pulse frequency to be sent to the warp engine nacelles."
Dilithum IS the element in the drive that ensures complete anhiliation of antimatter injected into the system. So overloading the core with deuterium has nothing to do with that aspect of it.
Also, an impulse engine does not drive a starship to near c velocities. Full impulse is held to be .25 c. It may be possible to engage the impulse drive to near light speeds, but it still does not involve the warp fields in any way shape or form. Read up on the impulse drive and its design in the TNG:TM.
------------------ "A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism."
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