posted
I think I’ve figured out which Constitution-class ship is in the Fleet Museum.
Before some folks get into an uproar, I'll tell you what ASSUMPTIONS I am making so that they can save their breath telling me that I'm proceeding on false grounds.
1. Picard's line in "Relics" (TNG) means that there is one Connie in the Fleet Museum that retains it's original (TOS-style) configuration.
2. The Republic mentioned in "Valiant" (DS9) is the same ship as from "Court Martial" (TOS) and TUC, the Constitution-class NCC-1371.
3. All the Constitution-class ships in TUC are refitted types. Specifically the Eagle, Kongo, Endeavour, Republic, and Potemkin.
4. Usually (though not ALWAYS) if we see one ship that carries a name, and then we see a later ship with the same name, it means that the older vessel has been lost/ destroyed.
5. The ship in the fleet museum is not one that we’ve never heard of. (This makes sense since there were established to be only 12 Connies originally, probably with the rest being introduced in two or three subsequent batches, the latter of which would all be refit-types.)
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, here it goes.
There's also these two ships from the DS9 episode "Sacrifice of Angels," which are Excelsior/Constitution-class and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship Variants, respectively: U.S.S. Curry, NCC-45617 U.S.S. Voyager, NCC-73602
We can eliminate these bottom two immeadiately. They didn't even exist in the TOS timeframe.
We can further eliminate the Valiant, Defiant, Constellation, Intrepid, and Farragut, as these ships were destroyed in TOS.
We can also eliminate the Enterprise, Constitution, Yorktown, Potemkin, Kongo, Republic, Endeavour, and Eagle, as they were all refitted prior to or during the movie era, with the Yorktown being recommissioned the Enterprise-A, eliminating her as well. The Republic is also known not to be in the Fleet Museum in the TNG era, but to be in use as an Academy trainer ship.
This leaves the following: Exeter Excalibur Essex Hood Lexington
Now, all of these names have been attached to other, newer ships from the TNG era, with the exception of one: the Essex. So I postulate that it is the U.S.S. Essex, NCC-1697, that is the Museum Ship from TNG.
What do you guys think?
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Well, and I would delete some ships from your Constitution-class list (Eagle, Endeavor, Essex, Farragut, Intrepid, Kongo, Republic, Yorktown, and Valiant)
[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: Spike ]
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
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posted
USS Valiant NCC-1223 was never a Constitution class ship.
The USS Voyager NCC-73602 is very different from the Intrepid/Constitution hybrid.
I don't know about the Republic though. On my list she's a Constitution still, until I see evidence otherwise.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
posted
Several of the contenders were also damaged in "The Ultimate Computer." Do you think being involved in that incident would somehow preclude their being put in the museum?
Also, I don't think your assumption 4 is reasonable, because ship names are used all the time without the first ship being destroyed or lost. For example, if the US Navy used such a system, they'd soon run out of ship names.
ASSUMPTION #5. The numbers and class information in the Encyclopedia are valid.
According to them, the Essex is from "Court Martial" (TOS) its number was on the repair chart. _______________________________________________
The359: Actually, the Valiant was indeed supposed to be a Connie, according to the Starship list in The Making of Star Trek. Also this is in Franz Joseph's Technical Manual, which of course is non-canon, and inaccurate on the subject of registries, but supports the notion that it was the production staff's intention to heve the Valiant as a Connie.
It's a popular theory that the Intrepid/Constitution from the DS9TM/"A time to Stand" is actually just an inaccurate drawing of the Voyager prototype. I guess that's another assumption I made, but it really doesn't affect the outcome of this deduction. _________________________________________________
Masao: I know what you're saying, but what I meant was that under these circumstances, the fact that we know of later Excelsiors/Ambassadors/Nebulas for the other ships, but not for the Essex, makes it possible to narrow it down to her. _________________________________________________
Still not a bad theory though, right?
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
posted
Where did we get that USS Voyager NCC-73602? We only saw two kit-bashed ships in the series, the Yeager and the Curry (The good news, is, though, that Starfleet has been producing more Intrepids as evidenced by the Yeagers). And, all we know is that there were 12 Constitutions as of "Tomorrow is Yesterday," the year 2266. Maybe more were built in the following years?
posted
Veers: The USS Voyager NCC-73602 is the prototype design for what became the Intrepid class. A model was built and can be seen in The Art of Star Trek book. It's similar to how the USS Melbourne design from "BoBW II" was the predecessor to what became the design we see with the Nebula class USS Sutherland.
Anyway, the proto Voyager has quite a similar appearance to one of the kitbashes in the DS9TM - except the actual proto Voyager is certainly no kitbash. It is often assumed that the DS9TM pic represents the proto Voyager and, as such, it is suggested that the model appeared in the background of a DS9 episode (most likely "A Time to Stand").
Of course, I have to wonder why Mim bothered bringing it up in the first place - the proto Voyager obviously has nothing to do with the museum Connie.
posted
Monkey, I prefer your theory to that of it being the Republc. The Essex is a good contender, but then again, its still highly likely that there were a great deal more than only the existing Constitutions we know about, for example my conjectural Connie lists speculates a hypothetical 50 Connies.
But I agree that the Essex though is perhaps the only canon Connie that is a reasonable candidate.
[ August 19, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
quote:The Republic mentioned in "Valiant" (DS9) is the same ship as from "Court Martial" (TOS) and TUC, the Constitution-class NCC-1371.
Let's think about this for a second. I realize that a reference by Ron Moore in the Encyclopedia states that he thought the Republic training ship was the original Connie. Playing devil's advocate, let's say he's correct.
Reality check: You're a midshipman, cadet, or whatever in today's U.S. Navy. Your commandant, however, states that your naval training will commence aboard a ship which is over one hundred years old (i.e the late nineteenth century, or the beginning of the twentieth). Pray tell, what exactly would be the point of this training? And where exactly would a ship this old be found to train on in the first place?
IIRC, all Jake said about the Republic was that it hadn't left Earth orbit for fifty years. Wouldn't it more likely be an Excelsior?
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
posted
FYI, Dukkie, modern navy men are often trained aboard old style sailing ships for a preliminary knowledge of sailing. I believe the old U.S.S. COnstitution still serves in such a capacity today, and it is over a hundred years old. It still has not been decommissioned, and still is registered as being on active duty on the navy list.
The Republic is a Star Trek parallel to something which is neither unheard of nor singularly uncommon in real life.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
The flagship of the United States Navy is the U.S.S. Constitution. It was sailed from Boston to Baltimore during the bicentennial and a couple other special occasions. It may be operated during fleet week, not sure about that.
But more analagous is the USCGC Eagle. A four masted sailing ship that Coast Guard cadets use to train on. Yes, its very old and nothing like cutters today, but cadets still use it to learn the basics of shipboard life and navigation.
A Constitution class vessel would be even more useful for cadets learning the basics of space navigation. Another benefit of living on a hundred year old ship first, it makes you appreciate the state of the art ship that you get assigned to all that more.
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
posted
Also, there are a number of Starfleet ships of such an age still in active service. If they can play a active role in the fleet, then they certainly have the ability to train cadets- to get them used to the rudiments of starship operations and life aboard ship.
Some examples of old 23rd century ships still in service include some of the early Constellation classes, and still a number of Oberths, first batch Mirandas and Excelsiors.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
Last time I checked, the USS Excelsior herself was still active making it almost 100 years old.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
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