posted
UGH! Don't listen to Ace, now you've screwed up the Saratoga registry again. That registry would mean that that Saratoga would exist before Sisko's was even destroyed.
Just make the new Saratoga...I dunno, Andromeda class, and give her a registry somewhere above 72xxx
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
NO! That registry is the Saratoga's registry! And what do you mean it existed before Sisko's? His was 3-something, mine is 6-something! You may claim that "registries aren't chronological" or whatever, but 6 comes after 3!
posted
Excuse me The359?! Veers chose a Steamrunner class ship for his new Saratoga. We know two Steamrunner class ships (according to Bernd, unless you don't want to listen to him, either): the USS Appalacia NCC-52136 and the USS Hiroshima.
Most ships of the same class fit in a certain range of registries (whether they are in chronological order or not has nothing to do with this).
The other First Contact vessels we know:
Saber class, USS Appalacia NCC-52136
Norway class, USS Budapest NCC-64923
Akira class, USS Akira NCC-62497 Akira class, (Name unknown) NCC-63646 Akira class, USS Rabin NCC-63293 Akira class, USS Spector NCC-65549 Akira class, USS Thunderchild NCC-63549
Guess what! They are all lower than 7XXXX!
And Mark...remember the USS Prometheus with an NX number in the 50000s. Besides, they can always rename a ship. If The359 wants to be so anal, Veers might want to choose more DS9/Voyager-era type ships (based on the assumption of The359 that registries are strictly chronological). I personally think registries are assigned in batches and are also chronological, but only in a general sense as to when the assignment of numbers was made. This can explain odd ships like the Prometheus (perhaps, the project was on hiatus during the peaceful early TNG days and only a spaceframe existed, etc...).
1) The Saber class starship seen in First Contact is the USS Yeager NCC-61947
2) The only confirmed Akira class starship is the USS Thunderchild. The rest of those are from the Fact Files (and the unnamed ship is a misread of the Thunderchild's NCC-63549)
3) You have a single, lone registry number for a Steamrunner class ship. You can not create a "range" from a single bloody registry number! Look at the Oberth class! USS Copernicus NCC-623 to USS Grissom NCC-59318. That's a helluva range if you ask me! And look at the Mirandas. USS Lantree NCC-1837 to USS Saratoga NCC-31911. Or Excelsiors. USS Excelsior NCC-2000 to USS Melbourne NCC-62043.
Therefore ANY number above the Appalachia's would work for a Steamrunner.
4) The USS Prometheus's registry number has been given as both NX-59650 and NX-74913.
5) Brand new ships of the TNG-era and beyond were supposed to have 7xxxx registries. That's why all the Galaxy class starships are 7xxxx, why all the Defiant class starships are 7xxxx, why the Bradbury (and brand new ship by her NX registry) is in the 7xxxx, why the Equinox is 7xxxx, why the Prometheus is (supposedly) 7xxxx, and why Voyager has a 7xxxx registry. Therefore, since this new Saratoga would have been built during the time of TNG (following Wolf 359), she would more then likely have a registry number in the 7xxxxs, more specifically somewhere above 72xxx and below 74xxx (since she'd be built after the Bradbury but most likely before Voyager).
Regardless, the Saratoga registry is pretty open to debate. We only know for certain the registry of one of the Steamrunner vessels. It doesn't give a range of registries to choose from, but it does set the lower limit of the registry range for now. If you assume that the Saratoga is a Steamrunner, then any number above the Appalachia's registry could fit in.
Here are my assumptions for this conclusion. First, we are assuming that registries are roughly chronological. Second, we are assuming that Starfleet didn't simply pull an old Saratoga out of mothballs to serve as a replacement until a newer model could be constructed. Third, that the "modern" era of new starships (from TNG Season 1 to Voyager Season 7) have roughly NCC-70000 as a lower limit (given that the Galaxy class prototype is 70xxx, the Defiant class prototype was 74xxx, the Valiant was 74xxx, Voyager was 74xxx, the Equinox was 72xxx, and others). Fourth, that the possibility exists for starships to be built to a certain stage and then stored for later need or continued development at a later time (based on the text from TNG Technical Manual detailing what happened to Galaxy's #7 through 12). This also my explanation for the Prometheus since, sadly enough, the more reasonable 74xxx registry was not seen as clearly as the 59xxx emblazoned on her hull. Fifth, that starships are assigned their registries as construction orders are written but ship names are not yet assigned. This covers the quick turn around in Enterprise's from Generations to First Contact.
My opinion is that what Veers think is the Saratoga's new registry is possible if we assume that it was a Steamrunner that was mothballed sometime before launch. Starfleet later pulled a series of stored ships out of storage and finished them. This Steamrunner that was known as 6xxxxx was assigned the name Saratoga.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
IIRC, Okuda (and possibly others) made up all the conjectural Encyclopedia classes when he put the book together. I highly doubt they made them up at the time the names were given since they couldn't even trouble themselves to give us class names for some ships we did see (Raven, Data's Scout, Centaur...).
That said, I like most of the names in the Encyclopedia and I'm glad so many were given.
posted
1. Yeah, it's the Yeager. Sorry about that. Pasted the wrong thing from Bernd's site.
2. Like I said, the ship names were from Bernd's site.
3. If you wish to list the extreme cases, fine. What about the majority of the ships in those classes however? Many Excelsiors in TNG/DS9 have 4XXXX range of numbers; most of the Mirandas of this time have 3XXXX, most of the Ambassadors have a 26XXX range.
4. So you say the ship is listed with two official registries? Look, I know Okuda picked a more logical number, but the lower 5XXXX number we saw clearly in the show. The 74XXX number was only seen on an MSD in the Encyclopedia (it couldn't be seen clearly on TV).
5. Fine, if you want to believe registries are strictly chronological, and it was a brand new ship, not a renamed vessel.
posted
There seems to have been confusion on a certain point... The problem isn't that the registry was too low for a Steamrunner. The problem is that it's too low for a ship obviously commissioned sometime after 2366. It would have to be some sort of odd exception to the normal progression of registries.
And, from what I understand, very few, if any, of the classes and registries in the Encyclopedia are made-up. They came off of computer displays and such. Why do you think we still have no class for the USS Valiant? Even the Columbia and Revere are classes, despite that fact that they were taken out of a book that gave them classes. Since they didn't have classes onscreen, they don't have them in the Encyclopedia.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Since they didn't have classes onscreen, they don't have them in the Encyclopedia.
Most of the Connies didn't have NCCs onscreen, but they do have NCCs in the Encyclopedia.
[ December 11, 2001: Message edited by: Spike ]
-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I don't know if this is of any use to anyone, but I'm looking through some new reference I have of Trek models and I thought I'd pass along the regestries. I know how much you guys love that sort of thing :-)
USS LAKOTA: NCC-42768 (Excelsior) USS PEGASUS: NCC-53847 (don't know if the number was visible in the episode) USS FREDRICKSON: NCC-42111 (Excelsior) RUBICON: NCC-72936 (Runabout) USS BRITTAIN: NCC-21166 (Miranda class - I think that's the name, hard to see) USS YAMAGUCHI: NCC-26510 (Ent C) USS FARRAGUT: NCC-60597 (Nebula class)
You may already know all of these, but I thought I'd pass them along anyway.
BTW, question for you: when you did "Message in the Bottle", did you happen to relabel and renumber any of the two Defiant-class ships attacking the Prometheus?
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Spike: All the names and numbers were onscreen, but just weren;t associated w/ one another. Okuda was going off a list that, I think, Greg Jein made, trying to match them up. But he didn't just invent them.
Mojo: Even though we already had all those, I'd like to speak for the group and say thanks and that, if you find anything else of that sort, we'd always appreciate having it passed along to us. :-)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I think that there is an ~95% chance the class, registry, and spellings are accurate for ships associated with the last four series. However, I think the percentage of certainity decreases very fast for ships of the first series.
The only registries which I accept for the original series, aside from those seen or heard, from Mr. Okuda's conjectures are these three:
The first is from a study model seen in Sisko's office. Second is from an Okudagram in ST VI. And, the last, is from a display in "Space Seed".
I disagree with him on other ships, including the U.S.S. Carolina . I think I see his reasoning from Bernd's site where he stated that this ship was part of a hoax message and that the ship may not exist in Kirk's time. Klingons reading from a ship list, perhaps? Anyway, this ship is proven by Lt. Uhura's words to be an actual operating ship in 2267. So she couldn't be Daedalus or have a registry in the hundreds. I attribute the mistaken class and registry to poor hearing and leave this ship without either identification.
Registered: Sep 1999
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Besides, they can always rename a ship. If The359 wants to be so anal, Veers might want to choose more DS9/Voyager-era type ships (based on the assumption of The359 that registries are strictly chronological). I personally think registries are assigned in batches and are also chronological, but only in a general sense as to when the assignment of numbers was made. This can explain odd ships like the Prometheus (perhaps, the project was on hiatus during the peaceful early TNG days and only a spaceframe existed, etc...).
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