posted
Yes, that's another interesting point. So the Klingons were referring to their ships as Birds-of-Prey before the Romulans were even on the scene!!! It was always assumed that the Romulans were the ones who originally coined the term "Bird-of-Prey," and that the Klingons only started making their own BoP's later. Apparently, thanks to Enterprise, that is not the case now. So tell me, just what are the chances of two totally different alien races, who have not made contact with each other yet, coining the same exact term for their ships?
The only way I can see of justifying this would be if the Klingons had already made contact with the Romulans before 2151. However, that's a problem in itself. Since the Klingon's tech is on par with the 24th century, the Romulan tech of this era would literally pale in comparison, if the info from "Balance of Terror" is taken into account. The Klingons should have totally annihilated the Romulans, unless they didn't consider the Romulans to be any threat.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Actually, there's a brilliantly elegant solution.
In English, the term "ship" can refer to both a large person-carrying thing that floats on the water or a large person-carrying thing that flies through space.
In Klingon, the term "C'blah T'yadda" can refer to either a creature that soars through the air or to a piece of military hardware that soars through space. Normally, context would make it clear which is which, but with the modifer "C'blah T'yadda dos Klah" we get further confusion, as it could refer to either an avian with predatory tendencies or a spacecraft with them.
In Cardassian, the term "Yergh" can refer to either a large person-carrying thing that floats on the water or a large person-carrying thing that flies through space. "Lo-Yergh" means "warship" in both contexts.
In Romulan, the term "Traxias" can refer to either a creature that soars through the air or to a piece of military hardware that soars through space. Normally, context would make it clear which is which, but the modifer "Dolwar Traxias" again causes confusion, and makes it so it could refer to either a battle-ready spacecraft or a battle-ready avian.
The Universal translator could therefore call the things Cardies fly in "ships" with the especially nasty ones translated to "warships" while Romulan and Klingons would be literally translated to "birds" then corrected via context to "ships". But, thanks to whatever lingual anomolies each language has, when they're modified to "warships" problems would arise in early UTs, and you'd get either "warbirds" or "birds of prey."
(oh, and yeah, I made up all the Alien words)
[ January 31, 2002, 13:27: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
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posted
Ah, I see now that you're a graduate of the Gene Roddenberry school of problem-solving.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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posted
If that involves pulling stuff out of my butt, then, well, sure.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
::shrug:: We humans already have airplanes that follow a similar naming convention. I watched a special on The History Channel (yes, I'm a geek. So sue me) on the some of the planes in the United States Air Force and the flight wings of the other military forces. We have the Falcons, the Raptors, the now-retired Blackbirds, and many others named after various flying species of Earth life. Collectively, the program referred to the fighters named after the birds to be... wait for it... Birds of Prey.
So, what we have are the Klingons, the Romulans, and the humans following a similar naming convention for their vehicles. The difference is that these animal classifications were more or less restricted to the aircraft in the human culture. We obviously favored a more neutral classification as J, Y, and NX-classes followed by Constitution, Ambassador, and Excelsior. The Klingons and the Romulans, more war-like than the humans, took to naming their ships after their flying creatures on their respective homeworlds. Whatever the Klingon or Romulan designations are, as The_Tom has shown, the Universal Translator simply translates it into an approximate English word.
However, I do agree with Dukhat that the Universal Translator is being shown to be perfectly working. The only difference that I can see with it in this time frame is that Hoshi Sato is needed to program it. She obviously spent a lot of time doing translations in "Broken Bow," it makes since that she programmed it with what she knew. The same thing goes for the Axanar in "Flight or Fight," except she wasn't able to program as much as she needed into it for it to work properly. Thus, she was needed to communicate directly.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
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The Klingons are so advanced from the Hurq... they were somehow able to reverse engineer technology that the Hurq left behind. Things that included warp drive, shielding, disruptors, photon torpedoes, tractor beams, and great hulls.
The Klingons are also warriors, not scientists. The reason they don't advance is because they don't try to advance. Their only purpose is to try something and then try it harder. For obvious reasons every ship from this raptor, bird of prey, to the D-7, are ships that the Klingons have had for a very long time.
It wasn't until the Alliance with the Romulans that they got something significantly new [they might have had some stealth technology before, but not what we traditionally call cloaking technology]. After that the Klingons significantly deteriated until the mid-2360's when their alliance with the Federation started to kick in--- I consider the updated D-7 [K't'inga], the newer bird of prey (both of them if you wish), Vor`cha, and Negh`var a product of the Klingon-Federation alliance.
The Klingons are only a power now for two reasons: 1) Their size Any large force can do considerable harm even thought that force may be weak. See Federation-Borg... Rain Forest Ants - Anteater 2) Their alliance Without the Federation the Klingons are nothing. In ten years all the other powers would be able to surpass the Klingons if it wasn't for the R&D of the Fed.
The Klingons might be able to sustain themselves for a few years against any of the major powers [the last Klingon War and anti-Breen Klingon defense force is a good example of this]. But the Klingons can never last long enough to win on their own unless they vastly overpower their enemy.
[ January 31, 2002, 16:23: Message edited by: J ]
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
But wasn't the Klingons able to beat the Federation in the alternate time line set up by the removal of the Ent-C?
Of course we don't really know that much about how the 20 year war went.
Anyway the Klingons don't seem to advance in technology as fast as the Federation, but still Klingons are not Pakleds.
The Feds may not have advanced that much since Ent eigther, the vulcans are probably on par with the Klingons, leaving not much for the Federation to actualy catch up.
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posted
Tis was a silly war, one very unlikely to be won by the Klingons if you consider the fact Praxis blew up in their face.
What bothers me is that episode with the hitch hiking aliens. Why didn't the Klingons go after their stealth technology instead of their holodecks? It almost seems to suggest that the Klingons have something similar...
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Registered: Apr 2001
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Like I said, the Klingons can still fight against an enemy they are on par with. Against the Federation the Klingons have an extremely good chance of winning. But if the Federation gets any type of R&D upper hand... a new weapon [quantums might have helped in the E-C timeline, so would a Defiant like ship] that the Klingons would have a hard time defending against, then the war would go differently.
I get the feeling that the war in the E-C timeline showed a Federation that was off-balance. One that was putting resources in a ship like the GCS, when it needed to go after smaller ships [I think stragetically speaking that any FC ship is better than the GCS]. At the same time, it showed a Klingon Empire that was in war mode.
Like I said originally. The Klingons can hold there own until someone gets an advantage. Klingons are going to be hard pressed to come up with defenses because they just don't have the scientific base necessary to find something that quickly. --- Had the Klingons had a problem with the Breen energy weapon, and they were the only ones fighting on their side... say bye bye Empire.
[ February 01, 2002, 12:21: Message edited by: J ]
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
quote:Originally posted by David Templar: What bothers me is that episode with the hitch hiking aliens. Why didn't the Klingons go after their stealth technology instead of their holodecks? It almost seems to suggest that the Klingons have something similar...
Someone probably did mention it, but got bitch slapped by the captain : "Coward! Where would you place your honor in such a thing!"
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posted
In battle, there is no greater honor than victory. The Klingons are always saying that. Advanced stealth technology would have provided a great advantage for them.
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Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
As for how much the Klingon's have advanced from ENT to DS9 - I think if we take the trek (and trek-like ENT) shows as a whole, shake out the worst of the "errors", we see that tech isn't advancing that much at all.
We're sort of spoiled because in the last hundered years we've gone from steam powered trains to nuclear power supersonic aircraft. However most of the technology from 200 years ago wouldn't have been all that alien 2000 years ago.
It is seems that trek simply represents another era where tech sort of stalls for awhile. Sure it advances - but not huge dramatic advances like our grandparents saw.
Archer would likely be able to grasp most of the functions/systems on the E-E, even if he is very impressed by the scale of them and if we take history as a whole instead of the exeption of the 1900's than that's OK.
Just some thoughts....
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