posted
The date of Wolf 359 is generally accepted as January 2367, based on Okuda's chronology and his view of stardates.
However, we know that Okuda's system is only partially consistent with the show. "Data's Day", for example, features the Hindu Diwali festival, which is always celebrated on a certain date *late* in the year according to our calendar. Okuda, however, puts the episode in early 2367. Furthermore, many times we've seen that the chronology is inconsistent with relative dates and anniversaries from the show, although that's been more of a problem in the past than nowdays.
So what do we know for certain about the date of Wolf 359?
a) Sisko mourned the fourth anniversary of his wife's death early in DS9's season two (SD 47329.4).
b) At about the same point in the season before that ("Emissary", SD 46379.1), we learn that Wolf 359 was "three years later". It's about the same point because DS9's season started later than TNG's, hence a stardate in the 463xx range for the pilot. The three-year time span is also mentioned in the dialogue.
c) In an alternate possibility ("Parallels"), Riker mentions that Picard was dead for four years. It's about the same time of the season as the ep with Sisko's anniversary (SD 47391), consistent with the other reference.
The third season of DS9/first season of Voyager/stardate 48xxx range pretty much covered the year 2371. The date is given twice in separate episodes of the first season of Voyager ("37s" and "Eye of the Needle"), while also being mentioned as Voyager's commissioning date ("Future's End"), which we know is stardate 48038.5.
Now, if stardate 46379 was three years after Wolf 359, and stardate 47329 was exactly four years after, it seems reasonable that stardate 483xx would be pretty close to five years after Wolf 359. Even without looking at the stardates, the episodes are at roughly the same points within a season. Since we're dating backwards from the certain date of 2371, Wolf 359 would've taken place in early 2366.
We can be even more precise -- in "Family", constellation Orion is visible on the sky in France, something that can only happen in the "dead of winter", to quote the stardate FAQ. The summer-like conditions could probably be explained as a weather modification (unless Timo can find a way to explain why the constellation of Orion is visible in summer, which he probably can, but still...)
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posted
Oh, come on. This has to be one Wolf 359 thread too far. I mean, what earthly point does it serve? Tell you what, let's just say it was on 26th December 2366. Why, because it was Boxing Day, and there was a large cube-shaped thing involved.
posted
Originally posted by Phelps: Now, if stardate 46379 was three years after Wolf 359, and stardate 47329 was exactly four years after, it seems reasonable that stardate 483xx would be pretty close to five years after Wolf 359. Even without looking at the stardates, the episodes are at roughly the same points within a season. Since we're dating backwards from the certain date of 2371, Wolf 359 would've taken place in early 2366.
The problem with that is that "Emissary" flat out states that the battle of Wolf 359 took place on stardate 44001.4. This places "Caretaker" roughly 4 1/3 years later, which is consistent with that episode's stardate of 48315.6. Even if you put "Caretaker" s date on January 1st (which seems pretty damned goofy to me; everything else about Trek seems to hold to an American worldview, so why would the year begin on that stardate?), the earliest date Wolf 359 could take place would be late September 2366.
Rather than trying to figure out some bizarre calendar with a variable start date, why don't we just stick with the 1000 stardates = 1 year formula and accept that the writers were sloppy in keeping their dates straight?
posted
That's all assuming 1000 stardates = 1 year, which has never been proven.
The way I see it, it's possible to date every episode in a way consistent with most onscreen references, just as it's possible to determine a ship's length in a way consistent with onscreen evidence, rather than mere word of the producers. We only need to start with a few canon facts:
1) airing order = approximately chronological order 2) "The Neutral Zone" happened sometime in 2364 3) "Eye of the Needle" happened sometime in 2371 4) "The 37s" happened sometime in 2371 5) "Homestead" happened on April 5, 2378 6) "Second Sight" happened four years and one day after "The Best of Both Worlds II" 7) Voyager was commissioned in 2371
Obviously, to complete the chronology, one would have to rewatch every episode or search the scripts for relative references, then find some patterns such as the four-year span between BOBW and DS9 season two. However, we need not establish the entire chronology just yet -- so far, it is sufficient to note one particular pattern, the time since Wolf 359, and to search for just the references dealing with the event or another event which we know happened right before or after Wolf 359.
There is also no need to assume the existence of a year's gap between seasons of TNG or DS9 -- after all, there could be a little gap here and there, which over time could add up to a full year. Such gaps are less likely on DS9 since it's a station show, where the effects of the previous episodes are not that far away.
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quote:Originally posted by Phelps: Obviously, to complete the chronology, one would have to rewatch every episode or search the scripts for relative references, then find some patterns such as the four-year span between BOBW and DS9 season two.
I've done just that for almost all of DS9 (a while back, though I'll post it here). The list is far longer than one would expect. Mostly consistent, but there are glitches.
� �Emissary� (1) to �In the Hands of the Prophets� (20): 7 months. � �Emissary� (1) to �The Homecoming� (21): 1 year � �Rules of Acquisition� (27) to �The Search, Part I� (47): 8 months � �The Jem�Hadar� (46) to �The Search, Part I� (47): 2 months � �The Search, Part I� (47) to �For the Cause� (94): 18 months � �Little Green Men� (80) to �The Ascent� (107): 1 year � �For the Cause� (94) to �For the Uniform� (111): 8 months � �Body Parts� (97) to �The Begotten� (110): 5 months � �Body Parts� (97) to �Ferengi Love Songs� (118): 1 year � �The Ship� (100) to �A Time to Stand� (125): almost 1 year � �Rapture� (108) to �In the Cards� (123): 6 months � �The Begotten� (110) to �Time�s Orphan� (148): 14 months � �By Inferno�s Light� (113) to �The Changing Face of Evil� (170): 2 years � �Ferengi Love Songs� (118) to �The Magnificent Ferengi� (134): over 1 year � �Children of Time� (122) to �Call to Arms� (124): 1 month � �In the Cards� (123) to �Call to Arms� (124): a few weeks � �Call to Arms� (124) to �A Time to Stand� (125): 3 months � �The Sacrifice of Angels� (130) to �You Are Cordially Invited�� (131): 1 week � �You Are Cordially Invited�� (131) to �Change of Heart� (140): 2 months � �His Way� (144) to �The Sound of Her Voice� (149): 1 month � �Tears of the Prophets� (150) to �Image in the Sand� (151): 3 months � �Tears of the Prophets� (150) to �The Siege of AR-588� (158): 5 months � �Tears of the Prophets� (150) to �Prodigal Daughter� (161): almost 6 months � �Shadows and Symbols� (152) to �Afterimage� (153): 1 day � �Afterimage� (153) to �Penumbra� (167): 6 months � �The Siege of AR-588� (158) to �It�s Only a Paper Moon� (160): almost 2 months � �Penumbra� (167) to �Til Death Do Us Part� (168): 3 days � �Til Death Do Us Part� (168) to �Strange Bedfellows� (169): -- � �Til Death Do Us Part� (168) to �The Changing Face of Evil� (170): 1 day � �When It Rains�� (171) to �Tacking Into the Wind� (172): 0.5 months � �Tacking Into the Wind� (172) to �Extreme Measures� (173): a few days � �Tacking Into the Wind� (172) to �The Dogs of War� (174): several weeks (Encyclopedia) � �The Dogs of War� (174) to �What You Leave Behind� (175): 1 day
There are a few bits that don't quite work out, but it's largely consistent. Another point to note is that "The Assignment" is in September, O'Brien's birthday, yet is an early-in-the-season episode.
I've actually been compiling all time references from the DS9 Companion, but these are just the relative episode-to-episode comparisons (and I've only gone through about 80% of the episodes so far). I'll eventually get to every episode of every series, but we're talking years from now.
[ February 05, 2002, 14:25: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
Since "Second Sight" should happen sometime in winter (Wolf 359 requirement), I set "Rules of Acquisition" that precedes it in February 2370, to allow at least some time for a winter setting. We can't go too far back because 2371 needs to span most of season three. The good part about starting this way is that "The Assignment" (O'Brien's birthday) fits nicely into September 2372.
Here's an edited psiphi schedule. My first draft of the dates -- I gave preference to the month-timespans rather than the year-spans. Those with the stars next to them are more certain than others:
OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
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posted
We see the alignment of the planets in BOBW2. Use Redshift and fast foward time until the point closest to 2373 when the planets are in that position.
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posted
Stardates are like the sun on a clear day.
Dont stare directly at them.
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posted
"There is also no need to assume the existence of a year's gap between seasons of TNG or DS9."
I'm possibly misreading this, but why would there be a year's gap between seasons anyway? Each season would take up a year, and the following season would take up the next year. Where's the year long gap?
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Checking the alignment of planets is a good idea; I'd have to look into it.
It was only two seasons between "Emissary" and "BOBW", and only three seasons between "Emissary" and "Second Sight", yet the timespans in question were given as 3 years and precisely 4 years, respectively, indicating that more years than seasons had passed. I suggest spacing out the TNG episodes so that three years pass between seasons two and six, but we'll have to look into it once we get around to dating TNG.
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What good will the checking of the planet alignments do? We have no idea what kind of a course the Cube followed once inside the Sol system, but one thing is sure - it wasn't a straight line. The lighting angles preclude that.
We *could* say that it all happened at a time when Jupiter was the closest planet to Wolf 359, because a Jupiter outpost was the first to spot the Cube. But that's pretty much it - and for some reason, the Cube still flew past Saturn (apparently against its orbital motion judging by the visuals).
In any case, Wolf 359 isn't in the plane of the ecliptic. So the Cube would have to make a course adjustment to reach that plane, which is only explainable if
a) for some weird reason, Borg cubes cannot fly at an angle wrt the local ecliptic, not even at simple impulse speeds, or
b) the Borg deliberately wanted to visit the outer planets.
In both cases, the obscure Borg motivations override the efficiency of a beeline approach, so we learn virtually nothing.
quote: Originally posted by Phelps: "Second Sight" happened four years and one day after "The Best of Both Worlds II"
Ok. BOBWII has a stardate of 44001.4. "Second Sight" has one of 47329.4. Do the math, and you'll find that 1 year equals 831.430527 stardates. Does this make sense? If someone asked you to come up with a calendar system, would you do it that way?
It boils down to two choices: 1,000 stardates = 1 year, and the writers are careless with figuring out their dates, or the dates are rock solid consistent and we have an incredibly arcane formula to make the stardates work. Apply Occam's Razor and pick one.
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