posted
Additionally, the escape pod of the Arcos doesn't match the known models of Starfleet escape pods.
I am of the alone opinion the Arcos is not a Starfleet ship. I think she is a civilian freighter with a crew of two, a captain and an engineer. (I have similiar feelings regarding the original Antares from "Charles X".)
For me, I have a litmus test. If the canon material refers to a ship as a starship, she is a Starfleet registered craft. If the canon material says otherwise, she is a not a Starfleet registered craft.
For completeness: Starfleet: A. Dialogue- *"starship" *"U.S.S." B. Non-dialogue- *uniforms *hull markings *similiar structures(i.e. escape pods)
Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
posted
I think Starfleet could well be running a merchant marine of its own, both in the TOS and TNG timeframes. The people would wear Starfleet (ish) uniforms and have special rights and duties compared with other sailors. They could be tasked with UESPA mapping missions, for example. Or diverted to deliver priority Starfleet shipments...
And I doubt there's that much of a difference between USS and SS. All USS's would be part of the broader SS category, really, if SS is taken to mean "starship". A civilian wouldn't bother adding the U. A Fleet hero might drop extra letters for brevity, too, if he was in a hurry.
Only printed references to SS (that is, Okudagrams, dedication plaques and pennants) should be taken to signify an implied difference. And I doubt we have had a real SS pennant yet, save for the "SS Birdseye" thing.
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
by the way, the Antares crewmen, Captain Ramart and Mr. Nellis, were actually wearing Starfleet uniforms, just out of date ones (a sign they were on a long mission?). doesnt mean they werent in Starfleet.
BTW, wasn't the Arcos crewman wearing a Starfleetish uniform? he was seen onscreen. His name was T'su, he was played by Vladimir Velasco.
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
S.S. is an older prefix and predates Starfleet. U.S.S., in its current form, came into use in the time of the Federation.
If the Antares was a Starfleet ship, why were her crew not dressed in Starfleet regulation uniforms? When we later saw Starfleet personal in TOS, they wore Starfleet regulation uniforms. The uniforms worn by Captain Ramart and his navigator were most similiar to that worn by Captain Merrick of the ill-fated S.S. Beagle . (We see a portion of his top and his pants in "Bread and Circuses". His vessel is clearly ideintified as a civilian scout lost six years prior to the episode.)
Furthermore, Mr. Okuda created an okudagram for the S.S. Xhosa which had the ship as "Antares Class". Mr. Okuda didn't hold to the idea postulated by the creators of TOS. This idea is to have ships identified by function, ex. starship class, scout class, runabout class, etc. Instead, Mr. Okuda chose to have classes named after the first ship in a class, ex. Constitution Class. The Xhosa specifications are those of a civilian star freighter. Ergo, the Antares of "Charlie X" was of this design and spawned several sister ships.
As for the Arcos , the uniforms worn by the crew were not of Starfleet. They were the uniforms worn by the observers at Mintaka 3. Their escape pod was not Starfleet issue. They were identified as a freighter, not as a starship.
Concluding, the Antares and the Arcos are in my opinion civilian ships operated by civilian crews. I know definitely from the dedication plaque located aboard a sister ship, the former ship was the prototype for a class of civilian freighters. As for the latter, she may be a retroconverted Starfleet starship. However, the evidence for this was very slight based on the testimony of a semi-canon work.
Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
the 'Mintaka' uniform was also worn by the crew of the Yosemite, some of whom were referred to by rank (lieutenant somebody died in the transporter).
BTW, wearing out of date uniforms doesnt mean you arent in Starfleet. Voyager wore out of date uniforms for years .. more seriously, even after the switch to season 3 TNG uniforms, tons of personnel still wore the jumpsuit version. and on DS9, in Rapture, when the crew switched over to the FC era uniforms, many of the personnel at the conference were still wearing TNG era uniforms.
These are all evidence that uniform changes in Starfleet arent instantaneous they probably take months to take effect.
Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Is it my imagination or do newark's posts read very much like those of targetemployee's?
How much time passed between 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' and 'Charlie X'? Maybe only a matter of months, definitely short enough for a small ship operating out in the sticks to still have the old uniforms.
And there's no reason why the USS Antares has to be the class ship of the Antares class. There could have been half a dozen starfleet ships called USS Antares before the class ship. And there's no reason why the civilian Antares class has to be the same as the Starfleet Antares class.
Oh please gods, don't let this turn into another Antares class thread.
I can easily buy the Arcos as a merchant marine or private frieghter. But the Tsiolkovsky and Antares are starfleet.
-------------------- "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
quote: I think Starfleet could well be running a merchant marine of its own
And as it happens, a "merchant service" is canon as of "Bread and Circuses," as it was this service which Merrick washed out into, and which presumably the Beagle (which, while we're at it, is described as a class 4 survey vessel, as well as a "stardrive vessel," and which, in one final odd bit of TNG synchronicity, has a crew of 47) belonged to.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I would have to agree on the Merchant Marine theory. The Merchant Marines ships now though dont have a USS in front, instead its USNS although most of the ships are formally Navy vessels which could be the case of the Tsiolkovsky and the Arcos, former Starfleet ships given to the Merchants. But thats just my point of view.
-------------------- "Who cares if we bomb a few hospitals, it just means we got them a second time" Warrant Officer Robert Clift, CVN-71 OEF
Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
.. more seriously, even after the switch to season 3 TNG uniforms, tons of personnel still wore the jumpsuit version. and on DS9, in Rapture, when the crew switched over to the FC era uniforms, many of the personnel at the conference were still wearing TNG era uniforms.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
