Where does stuff like Ships of the Star Fleet and Star Fleet Dynamics/Prototypes/what-have-you fall? Some of this stuff was just made up by ordinary guys with a drafting board, right? All that stuff from Mastercom data center, etc, was it ever actually licensed through Paramount? What about the LUG RPG supplelments? Star Fleet Battles? Jackill's reference guides?
It seems not, and if this is the case, than I have a corollary question: Why does anyone put any faith in these sources if they're just made up? Aren't they essentially just really technical/visual fanfic? I mean, I can see the sense in trying to find some value in officially licensed non-canon stuff like novels, computer games, FASA, etc. But why pay any attention to self-published, non-licensed, completely-invalid-in-any-official-sense stuff?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it can't be good, or maybe even better than what's licensed, but still isn't it totally void when it comes to what's "real" in Trek?
I'd like to include annotations referring to non-canon sources in my new shiplist, but I need help differentiating between what actually counts and what doesn't. Can you guys (Identity Crisis, this is probably something you could really help with) provide some aid?
Thanks, -MMoM
[ July 12, 2002, 15:05: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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Well, the fandom sources that get the most respect tend to be those that are neatest/best/most interesting. And, of course, the reason why fandom sources exist at all is because there wasn't anything else out there.
As for what's "real" in Star Trek, aside from the obvious answer, no, something like Jackall's isn't "real," apart from where its documenting an onscreen design.
But, uh, this is all common knowledge, and no one disputes it. I mean, not even James Dixon will claim that events from these sorts of outsider sources are the same as things on the show. He might say they should be treated that way. He might even prefer them. But the, dare I say it, ontological facts remain the same regardless of your position on the matter.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Spike: PS: I bet 300 quatloos that he can't answer it without Okuda-bashing.
Probably not.
Anyway, I put faith in the Franz Joseph Tech Manual and Enterprise blueprints (well, most of it) because despite what Paramount says, it is official. Roddenberry approved almost everything in them and most importantly, they were used for TMP, TWOK, and TSFS. Just because the FJTM became an inconvenience later on doesn't mean that they can be totally ignored or disregarded.
I guess Ships of the Star Fleet and other publications are just a matter of personal preference... if you read something, like it, and it fits with filmed material, then go ahead and believe it's true. Makes for hell trying to discuss things, but having different viewpoints is all part of the fun, IMO.
[ July 12, 2002, 16:52: Message edited by: USSMillennium74754 ]
Registered: May 2002
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Starfleet Prototype, Ships of the Star Fleet, Jackill's Guides et al. are completely unauthorized and unlicensed by Paramount. Made by fans. Most don't even have publishing information so they can hide from the lawyers. As far as I know, the only tech manuals authorized by Paramount are the Sternbach/Okuda books, Mr. Scott's, and Franz Joseph's.
LUG and FASA were licensed by Paramount. I think Starfleet Battles was too, but they also had some sort of arrangment with Franz Joseph to use his designs.
-------------------- When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Registered: Oct 1999
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Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
What about novels? There are definitely some I'd like to see canonised (however this may work), but others like Jeri Taylor-novels should definitely not be concidered canon. While I think the first book was nothing really outstanding, it was a good read. Maybe the B-plot was a bit lame, but the rest was solid. The second novel on the other hand was a horrible. I don't know what's the point of that book, but if that should be canon, my ass is canon, too.
(BTW, why does anyone say so? Just because Taylor was one of the executive producers? What about Shatner? Don't tell me you concider that stuff canon! )
Jackill's books should be - at least - respected. There are some things I disagree on, but this is something I'd like to have seen from Pocket as an official publication. (Did you read Sternbach's interview at Trekweb? It seems he had plans for such a book but Pocket decided to publish the Blueprints instead! )
One question I always wanted to know: How did people get their totally unofficial books published? Just putting a 'Paramount is not responsible' on the cover shouldn't do it. How did they do it without Paramount kicking their butts? And why are there no new publications? Ten years ago, there were dozens of them. Where are they?
-------------------- "This is great. Usually it's just cardboard walls in a garage."
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
If you mean "How do they avoid legal entanglements?": Those sorts of concerns wax and wane, depending on which way the corporate winds are blowing. At times Paramount doesn't care, at times it does. My suspicion is that such things are probably decided at the level of Viacom's elite law commandos.
If you mean "How do you publish a book?": Well, you know, you just find a small printing shop. I've done it before. Uh, found a small printing shop to publish a small book, that is, not publish a work of Trek-technowhatsis.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Siwiak
Ex-Member
posted
I hope to god none of the novels are ever considered canon. We've had authors state that GPL is actually metal, others who totally mix up even common information, and let's not forget Bill Shatner bringing his character back from the dead to save the Federation a handful more times, now in the 24th Century. While I love books like "Ship of the Line" and agree that they're great plots, calling them canon would add too-many kinks, despite the awesome storyline.
As canon goes, the first and foremost sources are obviously the hundreds of actual series episodes, as well as the ten movies. ST: Encyclopedia, ST: Chronology, TNG: TM, DS9: TM are next in the canon hierarchy, with Star Trek: The Magazine often being called a canon source by many, especially with official Paramount approval and the fact that much of the information comes straight from sources on the show. I don't know where the Starship Spotter would fall, seeing that it is a great source from people who worked on the show... but not exactly, ya know? The Fact Files is also a nice source, but it would seem that ST: The Magazine is the "official version" of it.
"We've had authors state that GPL is actually metal..."
Open-sourced alloys?
Registered: Mar 1999
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Siwiak
Ex-Member
posted
More like copper or silver, rather then that jelly fruit-filling inside those blocks of "worthless" gold that we saw Morn spit out in one episode of DS9.
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"Where does stuff like Ships of the Star Fleet and Star Fleet Dynamics/Prototypes/what-have-you fall? Some of this stuff was just made up by ordinary guys with a drafting board, right? All that stuff from Mastercom data center, etc, was it ever actually licensed through Paramount? What about the LUG RPG supplelments? Star Fleet Battles? Jackill's reference guides?" _________________________________________________
Well speaking for Star Fleet Dynamics/Prototype/USS Enterprise NCC-17001A Deck Plans; after I created them in a design program (what's a drafting board?), I contacted a local high-end print shop and got a few thousand run off of each.
I never pretended that the data was canon - back then no one was using the term (semi-religious). I originally created the work out of a creative urge. Actually, I created Dynamics because I belonged to a large club of ST writers, and I wanted a source for them they could trust for MP-era tech and military methodologies. The idea of actually publishing it and selling it was New Eye Studios.
No one was actively hunting indie publishers - there was a severe dearth of authorized works at that time - and I think TPTB were happy that someone was keeping the genre alive. They know I exist - at one point at a Creation Con in LA (back in 1990), one of my books was offered in an auction - and was held up by one of TPTB. On another occassion, During a tv interview with a ST producer, I saw a copy of Dynamics on the bookshelf behind him.
So why haven't they come after me. Someone previously mentioned my own theory: It doesn't become a hunt until Viacom gets upset - and I'm small potatoes. (Plus, I haven't published in 1- years).
This is about to change. As some of you know, we are working on several deck plans for 24th century starships. The ships will be canon - but of course the products won't be. And I plan to sell these on the web. Since TBTB have nothing parallel - we doubt that they will bother - as we are not in direct competition.
Keep your fingers crossed, as we are about to go where no man has gone before.
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Siwiak: The Fact Files is also a nice source, but it would seem that ST: The Magazine is the "official version" of it.
Although I only ever picked up a few issues of the fact files before thinking "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHAT AM I DOING!", I believe that all the information in there came from canon sources anyway. They didn't make anything up, so it would be canon by default.
I'm not 100% sure on this however, and they might have changed policies.
[ July 14, 2002, 20:24: Message edited by: PsyLiam ]
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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