posted
He originally said eighty two AUs, they merely slienced the eighty part.
quote: It doesn't matter if you have warp, transwarp, quantum slipstream, or infinite improbability drive; you won't have any time to say "Engage."
I don't know, I think having a black hole spontaneously turning into a pair of Belgian folk singers wearing cereal packets and dancing to the tune of a Vogon funeral dirge is a finite possibility
posted
To counter MMs comments, I'll extract the text from the old theory I initially constructed:
quote:"that the machine civilization 'V'Ger' encountered may have in fact been the Borg, who, finding this kindred machine and discovering its mission to absorb and assimilate information in order to progress and perfect understanding greatly enhanced its technology, giving it the ability to physically adapt and reconfigure itself. They constructed a new vehicle to convey the central probe unit, whilst endowing it with incredibly advanced scientific and technical knowledge. During its voyage over the course of several centuries, it became so huge, accumulated so much information and technology, it became a sentient emergent lifeform."
Yes, the Borg's goal is assimilation, but they seemed to have altered their goals before, between episodes 'Q Who?' and 'TBoBW', (they were only interested in technology in 'Q Who?', not assimilation), and again in First Contact - their conquest then greatly involved acquiring Data for the collective, when before he'd been called 'obsolete' in the Borg's long term objectives.
- Spock's observations of a society of living machines was merely a visual and perceptual interpretation at the time, and can't be taken as 100% correct.
- V'Ger also evolved to be as powerful as it was, yes, extending far beyond that of the Borg, because it may have been on that journey for centuries gathering data and an evolving consciousness, maybe even millennia, particularly if the wormhole/black hole had also gone back in time.
It's just a theory, anyway.
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
If you passed through an event horizon and were through some magic able to come out again, yes, you'd find that an infinite amount of time had passed in the outside universe since you went in.
But why that should be an obstacle to starships, chief among whose features is that warp drive does away with time dilation, is beyond me.
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"...they were only interested in technology in 'Q Who?', not assimilation..."
I don't think so. Maybe they didn't want to assimilate the crew at that exact moment, but it was obvious that they were into assimilation in general. Otherwise, where did the Borg that we saw come from?
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posted
The Borg had to have always been into assimilation. Why would they have gone after Guinan's entire species otherwise? They just wanted to get the Enterprise-D's technology first.
Phase One: Unknown ship shows up. (Yeah yeah, thanks to our wonderful friend Braga, the Borg knew all about the Federation!) They send a single drone aboard to analyze its technological capabilities to resist. One drone gets fried, but the Borg quickly adapt to the hand phasers.
Phase Two: Prepare for assimilation by locking a tractor beam on the Enterprise. The Enterprise fights back and causes major damage that forces the Borg to go into regeneration mode.
Mark, don't forget that Spock mind-melded with V'ger. Although he was overwhelmed by the link to such a powerful consciousness, he still had to have gotten some fairly accurate information. There's a big difference between a machine and a machine-humanoid hybrid.
The Borg also aren't interested in other beings' quests for perfection. In their mind, they'd be doing the other guys a favor by assimilating them, therefore uniting their two quests for perfection. Take Data in "First Contact," for example. Data is on a quest for "perfection" -- but the Borg would rather that he do it on their terms.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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quote: Yeah yeah, thanks to our wonderful friend Braga, the Borg knew all about the Federation!
Try as I might, I can't seem to find his name anywhere in the credits. But I am sure the minor detail of him not being hired by Paramount until several years later is easily overcome through a complicated and entertaining conspiracy theory.
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quote: Yeah yeah, thanks to our wonderful friend Braga, the Borg knew all about the Federation!
Try as I might, I can't seem to find his name anywhere in the credits. But I am sure the minor detail of him not being hired by Paramount until several years later is easily overcome through a complicated and entertaining conspiracy theory.
I was referring to "Dark Frontier," in which the Hansen Family was assimilated, at least ten years before the events of "Q Who?"
The whole point of the early Borg episodes was that the Collective was not aware of the Federation, but once they found out in "Q Who?" they decided to go invite Humanity to join their quest for perfection.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
It's a good thing you're not British, else you'd certainly feel the brunt of some comment using the word "Hegimony."
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I was going by the line from Guinan in 'Q Who?', which went, and I quote:
"They're not interested in you, just your technology..."
And in TBoBW it was also made apparant in the script that the Borg's objective had changed, significantly.
MM, you bring up good points, and I agree there is plenty to counter the Borg/V'Ger theory. But I won't throw it out entirely. There's still a few tantalising titbits that will keep me sitting on the fence for now.
Ever read the TNG book Vendetta? (I think it was) There were some interesting, if somewhat far fetched theories regarding the Borg and the Doomsday Machine in that...
-------------------- "To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty
posted
I'm with Red Admiral on this. At the time of "Q Who" the assimilation thing cleary wasn't intended. It has since been retconned into the Borg always having had an assimilation urge, but it wasn't planned at the time.
Evidence: Q saying that the Borg aren't interesting in the crew, only their ship. "They've seen it as something they can consume".
Guinan: "They destroyed my people". Yeahm she could have been talking in a general sense, but "they assimilated my people into their own" sounds scarier, and she was trying to get Picard to fly away.
quote: it was obvious that they were into assimilation in general. Otherwise, where did the Borg that we saw come from?
Don't forget that we saw a nursery in that episode. The implication was that the Borg still have babies (althogh most likely in a totally artificial way. Possibly the sperm and eggs are removed as soon as possible, and the whole thing is done in the borg equivalent of test tubes). The babies are then implanted with cyborg components almost immedietly.
The change was also verbalised in BoBW:
"What the hell do they want with you?" "I thought they weren't interesting in our life form, only in our technology." "Their priorities seem to have changed."
And then, by "I,Borg", assimilation has become the Borg's primary goal.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
Or, as Timo says, Q was misrepresenting the Borg. Or, to be charitable, he was mentioning only the parts he found most important at the time.
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