posted
It's been a while, but I've finally finished it. There were at least half a dozen separate threads that were started about a year ago on the topic of fighters. It got me thinking about fighters a lot and then I saw "Preemptive Strike" [or maybe it was the other way around, either way all started late last year]. In any case, I started to put together this site [at least in my mind] way back then. There have been a lot of delays, and I don't even think it's done yet, but here goes anyway.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
I can't agree that Data's and Riker's statements would really establish ALL the ships as being of Federation origin. If something like 60% of them are, that's plenty enough to meet the dialogue.
The Bajoran birdlike "assault ship" can of course be a generic UFP design if it has to. But it does have a kind of a "national" look to it, one that would do a lot of good in giving the Bajorans an identity of their own.
And even if Kira considers these ships to be impulse-engined in "The Siege", this alone is no reason to say they wouldn't have warp engines, too. Warp drive simply isn't relevant to "The Siege" - Kira is only worried about being outrun by impulse engines in the sublight combat.
Then again, the blockade fleet in "Shadows and Symbols" (or was that a B5 title?) around Bajor's moon is considered an "impulse fleet". It consists of freighters that would be useless if warp-incapable, and of these assault craft. So it would make sense for the assault craft to be impulse-limited.
And in "Shattered Mirror", don't we see Federation display panels inside the (presumably warp-capable) assault ship Smiley and Sisko are flying?
The Hideki doesn't look very fighterish to me in any of her appearances. She vastly outbulks every other "fighterlike" craft we've seen, including Chakotay's ship. We'd have to count the Klingon BoP as a fighter, too, if we included Hideki...
I also have reservations about applying the name "Peregrine class" to any specific design at this point, but that's another matter...
posted
It's a Peregrine class "courier", whatever that means. And it can
a) match a Danube runabout's pursuit speed b) be piloted by a single person c) land (but takeoff is not confirmed)
And that's about it. We've never seen a ship identified as "courier" before, although Sisko mentions a Federation "auxiliary courier" or possibly "auxiliary carrier" making the attack run against two Cardassian ships in "Maquis I". And Chekov thinks Spock's vessel in ST:TMP could be "some sort of a courier".
Personally, I think a "courier" should be able to carry passengers and would have prominent engines and very humble armament. But with the Maquis upgunning their craft, there's no telling which one of them began life as a basically unarmed taxi cab, and which was an armed-to-teeth interceptor originally.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: 1, 5 and 10 seem to be the three Runabouts... but that isn't the scene from The Maquis Part II is it?
No this is still from Preemptive Strike... I don't have a single episode of DS9 on tape [wish I did though].
1, 5, and 10 are the Subimpulse ship, in the blurry blown up image used to number each of the vessels it looks like they might be a runabout or a large shuttle [Insurrection Scout, Type-12, Sovereign Yatch... etc], but the later close-ups go into great detail on each ship tracking their movements--- they really aren't runabouts...
quote:Originally posted by Time: (In my best British understatement voice)
Pretty damned impressive, sir...
(/In my best British understatement voice)
Then Later: I also have reservations about applying the name "Peregrine class" to any specific design at this point, but that's another matter...
(brit)Why thank you my good sir, thank you(brit)
As for that Peregrine bit, I think I emailed you about it sometime ago... what I eventually decided to do was go with the most used instead of a literal use of evidence [gee that sounds extremely legalistic]. Most people call that the Peregrine, I would probably get plenty more emails about not calling it the Peregrine than I would calling it the Peregrine... just be glad I didn't name the other three "classes"
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
Regarding the Perigine,I've been told there was a scene in DS9 Change of Heart which calls it explictly a Peregine and it matchs the design seen in the later war episodes. I don't have it on tape so I can't confirm that though. The class is mentioned in The Changing Face of Evil in the backround chatter (Squadron # begin scouting or something to that effect) and of course What You Leave Behind
As for the Impulse ship wasn't Dax, through Tobins experiances, the only one who had the neccessary knowledge to help Kira fly it? To me that suggests that it isn't a Federation design(or at the very least thats it isn't a very current design)
The Insurrection scout seems to bear hull features similar to the Defiant, ie the nacelles , along with the cockpit, which seemed only to be able to fit Data, suggest that it's a single seat fighter (Considering that the orignal fighters were called Scouts along with the Federation reluctance to call a warship a war ship it fits that they would call it scout)
Registered: May 2001
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posted
It IS bigger than any other shuttle from the feds, and any shuttle carrying internal photon torpedo launchers isn't exactly from the red cross, that's my policy.
-------------------- "I'm nigh-invulnerable when I'm blasting!" Mel Gibson, X-Men
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I'm not sure if "Change of Heart" had a reference. The name Peregrine was uttered in "Heart of Stone" (and AFAIK nowhere else), and you or your source might be confusing the episode names. There were no craft on screen other than the standard runabout in "Change of Heart", and very little reason to mention other kinds of craft.
I'm surprised to hear that the final episodes would have had a reference to Peregrines in radio chatter. Do you mean they actually used the word "Peregrine"? Or just that they showed these interceptors and then had some radio chatter that mentioned "interceptors", "tactical wings" or somesuch?
Yeah, the SUB-impulse fighter from "The Siege" was something that Dax alone (out of the Federation heroes) could hope to fly. It may have been a newish Bajoran craft, or then a centuries-old Federation design kept in service by nobody else except the Bajorans. All we know for sure is that its basic tech was so old-fashioned that only Dax could handle it.
The larger winged ships that intercepted this sub-impulse fighter are the ones J calls "assault ships", and they are also often called "impulse ships" because they had impulse engines and the tiny fighter of Kira and Dax didn't (hence SUB-impulse). We don't know if they had warp or transwarp or some other type of engines in addition to impulse, though. Perhaps not.
Data's scoutship did seem to dedicate most of its volume to something else than passenger space. Then again, so did Picard and Worf's shuttle. Both of these craft had cramped cabins in relation to the outer dimensions. Neither of them seemed to have a door leading to the cabin, for that matter - the scout only had a floor hatch, the shuttle only had a transporter. Really awkward and "fighterlike" if you ask me.
Both designs would probably do well as fighters. The scout was able to rattle Rua'fo's big command ship, and the shuttle had that fancy aft-firing torpedo launcher (or whatever)...
posted
Wow, that's a very thorough analysis, J! Nice job.
First, a minor addition to your article, in Chapter 2: the Peregrine-class fighters were also seen in the Big Battle in "What You Leave Behind." They were specifically referred to as fighters there, IIRC. They might have been given numbers rather than names, but it's been a while since I saw that episode.
I also agree with Timo's suggestion above that not all of the Maquis ships had to be Federation in design. Given that there were quite a few fighters there, it's probable that Data and Riker were making generalizations. If most of the ships attacking were Federation, then it wouldn't make as much sense for Data to say, "the attacking ships are Federation in design, all equipped with type-8 phasers and photon torpedoes... wait, there's one -- no, two -- ships of Bajoran design, and they're using type-7a phasers. Wait, there's also a...." See my point?
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
This is pretty trivial typo stuff, but in the description for chapter one it says, "Get out your notepods, they'll be a test at the end!" I assume you meant "notepads" and "there will," respectively. If not, what are notepods and how do they become a single test?
posted
Rick Sternbach (while still working on the show) told us that "Peregrine-class" was the designation that applies to the Starfleet fighters. While this was never explicitly established in any episode, all statements made onscreen DO back it up.
About the use of the word "courier," I think a courier would not be so much about carrying passengers than carrying messages or important documents, etc. IMO, this could easily be another role of the Peregrine design.
I also wanted to mention that the Maquis Raider is designated as Ju'day-class. (After set decorator [?] Penny Juday, who's married to Anthony Fredrickson.) This was stated in a previous issue of Star Trek: The Magazine, IIRC. It was used on a blueprint/schematic in an episode of VGR, probably "Repression."
I do not believe that the Bajoran Impulse Raider or Attack Ships are Federation designs. IIRC, they were designed specifically to be Bajoran vessels. But considering there are at least two other designs there (Peregrine and Ju'day) that are known (or assumed) to be Federation, I don't have a problem accepting Riker's statement as applying to only those.
Overall, a very nice analysis...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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