posted
Mike Wong (perhaps jokingly) suggested this one to me, but it could make sense. To expand on it, perhaps ships and the people inside routinely change size within a certain range, which ultimately affects their power. This could be a valuable weapon, and all OLS was about is trying to expand the size variation range from 6x to a lot more than that.
Alternatively, we ignore the appearance of the models and conclude that ships of a different scale really look different, and that given a sufficient budget we would see these variations. These two options are the only ones that logically make sense in light of episodes that would've been made impossible if we simply ignored the depicted size relationships (the Defiant fitting under Galor's shields, etc.)
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: Frankly, after having just recently watched "Yesterday's Enterprise" again, I'm starting to think that the K'vort class simply doesn't exist in the "real" world. Assuming we write off "The Defector" as a goof, we're left with no mention of the name, nor any more appearences of gigantic birds of prey. At least, none that I can readily recall.
I can give several examples of BoP's comparing with the Enterprise-D:
-- "A Matter of Honor," when Riker served as an exchange student. -- "Unification, Part I," which might have been reuse of the same shots. -- "Reunion," which had the E-D, a Vor'cha, and two BoP's. -- "Rascals," which reused footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise." -- "Redemption, Part I," which shows two BoP's attacking a Vor'cha at close range. Not a perfect comparison, but we do know the length of a Vor'cha (independently, and compared to E-D).
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I'm just not sure any of those are convincing. To me, anyway. But, we shall see, I guess. I could make a project out of it.
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Well, the shot in "A Matter of Honor" and "Unification, Part I" pretty much shows that there was an super-sized Bird-of-Prey. (Do you want fries with that?)
But the funny thing is the example from "Rascals" -- which is the origin of the B'rel class designation. Except that that episode reused the footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise," which was the origin of the K'vort class designation. Meaning that the B'rel class BoP can't "really" be the smaller version of the BoP, because according to the SFX that it was based on, it was actually the 300+ meter version!
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capped
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posted
the VFX are contradictory even to themselves. thats why i maintain the single-sized, multiconfiguration theory.
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Yes, of course the VFX shots are contradictory. Everyone knows that the REAL Klingon Bird-of-Prey was painted NEON GREEN, and the dull/rusty green-red scheme is just another one of their many goofups!
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I'm yet to see "Rascals". Were the BoP in that episode mentioned to be scouts? If so, that might be the reason Okuda assigned the name to the small Birds.
I personally don't like the idea of upscaled ships, but the BoP is not the only example of it being done. It's impossible to ignore that there's two sizes of the Hideki ("Tacking into the Wind") and of the Kazon raider/shuttle.
Going by the evidence, the BoP being larger and more powerful during TNG is clearly intentional. We can ignore it, as I've done thus far, but ultimately it's ignoring the truth. Sometimes the truth hurts.
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
im not saying they arent more powerful.
the Defiant is as or more powerful than an uprated Excelsior, but im sure a Defiant built for a crew of 12 with movie-era technology would be much less powerful, despite its identical size.
and the term scout was in ST:III -- Sulu identifies the ship as a scout, probably a crew of 12.
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posted
"Rascals" made no mention of the size or type of the attackers - Worf just called them B'Rel class BoP's. But Okuda knew that K'Vort had been used as the name for the big ships, and B'Rel was the only other name known, so he probably picked it for the smaller ones without doing the research. Or perhaps he thought the Ferengi wouldn't be able to steal/buy the big BoPs but could acquire the small ones.
In the regular Trek universe, the name B'Rel probably applies to what K'Vort applied to in the alternate one - the really huge bird. And in the regular universe, the name K'Vort could either be used for the "midsize" BoP (the one in all DS9 save "Way of the Warrior" fleet scenes), or then not be used at all.
In any case, three distinct sizes of BoPs have been shown next to the well-defined Vor'Cha: the tiny ones (about 80m, in "WotW"), the midsize ones (150-200m in "Sons and Daughters" et al.) and the big ones (250m+ in "Reunion" and "The Mind's Eye"). And ALL of these would have had the extra window rows (unless DS9 returned to a more pristine version, like an AMT kit or a CGI model).
posted
None of the non-TNG BoP are likely to have the extra window holes. All of the TNG episodes that feature large BoP originally aired between when ST:V and ST:VI were released. I'll check this later but it's likely that ILM restored the miniature for ST:VI. DS9 and Generations would also thus have the BoP in its original state. And then later they introduced a CG model based on the "no drill" model.
quote:Originally posted by Capped In Mic: by the way, i dont get that neon green reference at all
I'm implying that if you're choosing to ignore the appearance of the SIZE of the ships in VFX sequences, then I'm going to choose to ignore the color of the ships' hulls.
In simpler words...
IT'S A FUCKING TELEVISION SHOW!!! DON'T TAKE IT SO GODDAMN LITERALLY!
(ahem)
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But the funny thing is the example from "Rascals" -- which is the origin of the B'rel class designation. Except that that episode reused the footage from "Yesterday's Enterprise," which was the origin of the K'vort class designation. Meaning that the B'rel class BoP can't "really" be the smaller version of the BoP, because according to the SFX that it was based on, it was actually the 300+ meter version!
Except it didn't. It reused footage from "The Defector" which is the episode that originated the "Amazingly stupidly almost-as-big-as-a-Warbird sized Bird of Prey".
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posted
No, I'm positive that the "Rascals" shots that involved the two BoP's firing on the -D were re-used from "Yesterday's Enterprise." The same disruptor shots, the flare of the shields, et cetera. Granted, I don't have a copy of the tape as proof, but my memory is pretty accurate with these kinds of details. I wouldn't claim a photographic memory, but I can remember some specific scenes, clips, and images pretty clearly. Maybe I should forget the useless Star Trek crap and spend more time remembering what I read about for history class yesterday?
However, the shot of the two BoP's in orbit of the planet with the -D was probably a new shot, though.
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