It's good to see the Ent-E get some more teeth considering it's meant to be such a powerful ship. In particular, the extra phaser arrays on the pylons are a very welcome addition.
The new torp launchers are certainly compact but it's reasonable to assume that they have some limitation compared to the regular launchers. Perhaps they can't launch torpedos at warp speed or something.
posted
Well, atleast the main shuttlebay launchers are on the new model. I cut and pasted a few shots of the aft saucer side of the EE, one from Insurrection, the one from The Communicator, and the one showing the Argo launching. The INS shot clearly has a nice flat spot right where the launcher goes. The two NEM shots confirm that the launcher is there now. Nice upgrade.
I can't tell for sure if the launcher is there or not down on the ship's stern. There is a boxlike structure just above the stern shuttlebay doors, but I think the launcher would be alittle forward of this box (according to Eave's drawing).
I've got the caps of the main shuttlebay launcher if anyone wants to post them for everybody to see. I can email, but can't upload to flare.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I for one would be happy to buy into the idea that there are varying sizes of torpedo launchers, and of torpedoes. The long range monsters with 1.5 kg of antimatter aboard would be fired from largish warp-capable launchers. But smaller turrets could fire weaker weapons to defeat enemies at closer ranges.
Short range wide coverage torpedo defenses might have become a concern with the Dominion and its swarm tactics: pounding a Battlebug even with relatively weak torpedoes might be worth the while. In blowing up a Romulan ship, they would be less useful - but as an anti-cloak measure at close quarters, they would be very practical indeed.
Not that I really would have wanted to have these extra launchers on the E-E. IMHO, it's a profoundly silly idea. But at least it's easy to rationalize away.
Maybe the longer launch tubes like those on the Galaxy class are the ones capable of firing the 10 torps simultaneously. Scale-wise, could you even get 10 torps to fit together in a tight enough package to fit out the launcher port? Not sure. More likely you have a longer breach and stack sets of torps (i.e. like 2 sets of 5) and then mag launch them out the tube and let them separate/track after exit. I think we saw 1 bright torp flash and then a separation into smaller torp flashes during Yesterday's Enterprise, the larger torp flash may not have necessarily been a single pack of torps, but may have been two/three packs close together. Also, I agree with Timo that the longer launch tubes should theoretically generate a longer range, more mag pulses = increased velocity.
For the smaller turret style launchers, we can probably assume they don't have the 10 shot multiple launch capabilty and really don't appear to need it based on their rapid fire capabilty. I can imagine two feed chutes running from floor to ceiling in the airlock deck area on the E-E that feed from a larger magazine of torps below that deck, where the torp integration/loading could occur. The torps could still be mag launched in the shorter turret launchers, just launched similar to how the US Army is testing "blow-off" armor panels. Those panels normally rest on the side of vehicles until an electrical charge is generated on the vehicle side and the panel side (with a similar charge) goes flying away from the vehicle and hopefully toward any incoming threat weapon.
Looks like good Dominion war upgrades to me....anybody notice if the stern torp launcher was firing in the movie or if its been spotted on the new CGI model in any of the pics?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Keep in mind though that we haven't seen a multi-launch from ANY starship since the fouth or fifth season of TNG... Maybe it was just something that didn't work out, and they refitted everything for rapid fire.
posted
Prehaps, just prehaps... With all the new technology that Voyager brought back... and all the new technology that was invented during the Dominion War... Prehaps torpedeo tech has evolved to the point where they can store torpedeos pre-armed? This would reduce prep-time and allow massive vollys to be fired in a shorter time.
Therefore, any place that can hold a short launch-rail and automated torpdeo-rack/loader could be converted into a launcher.
(Patent Pending And Copyright "FlamingTechheadFanboy INC," All Rights Reserved) EDIT: Very funny Liz! NOW STAY OUT OF FLARE!!!
[ December 19, 2002, 14:57: Message edited by: Styrofoaman ]
-------------------- Like A Bat Out Of Hell...
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
The only problem with preloaded torps is presumably that you wouldn't have a way to regulate the amount of destructive force delivered. That's probably the primary reason that Sternbach et. al. designed the m/a loading systems around the torp tube just so that the torps could be customized for a particular target or required damage effects.
True Mark, we haven't seen the multiple launch since then, but the TNGTM made such a big point about it so I'd say it's probably still onboard. I can't think of an instance where a multiple launch would have been handy during later episodes, would've been cool to see during the battle of Chin'toka (sp) Normally, you try to work showstopper bugs out before integration into the hardware...(not that defects don't come up later on, but almost 10 years (using 2357 as the Galaxy launch and 2366 as the episode timeframe [3rd season?])is a long time for a BIG problem to crop up and cause a system to be scrapped.)
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posted
Remember in "Genesis" where a smug Worf was testing out their brand new torpedo system? That coulda been it. I've no doubt that the old system could still be there, but the fact remains that it could have been used in a variety of situations. The attack on Chin'toka, for example, where Starfleet was trying to destroy as many of the OWPs as possible before they came online.
The extra tubes we see here seem capable of handling standard-size torpedoes (microtorps aside, we've only really seen one size anyway). At the most, I'm guessing they have no capacity for warp launch or specialized payloads - the larger GCS launchers would be more capable of launching oddly-shapped probes. I'd think that they were capable of rapid fire bursts... We see three launch in that one instance, followed by three more. This means that the aft saucer launcher is capable of at least two per tube per burst, and probably three - unless it was the aft shuttlebay launcher that let loose three torpedoes in the subsequent volley, which therefore suggest that the top launchers are capable of three-round bursts too.
Sternbach said a GCS carried 250 torpedo casings under standard conditions. All things being equal, the Sovereign probably carries a similar number, given its more military role. Given how long they were blasting away at random, they could have easily expended that much of the course of the battle.
posted
The torp shot in Genesis was a torp upgrade and probably not a launcher upgrade. They made an effort to recover the torp, which would seem more plausible if you were testing an upgraded torp capability.
"This means that the aft saucer launcher is capable of at least two per tube per burst, and probably three"
Not really, the turret only has to fire pom pom style with torp 1 out the left tube, torp 2 out the right tube, torp three out the left tube and so on. The nonfiring tube goes through a reload cycle while the other tube empties a round.
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posted
What I mean is that even with said pom-pom fire, the launcher would have to take a break to recharge or something. Reloading the tube must mean more than simply slapping another torpedo in there.
I'm sure the "Genesis" upgrade was more than just a fancy new torpedo... Anyone have access to the scripts? Regardless, Starfleet would be obligated to retrieve a trorpedo that wouldn't self destruct. NOT doing it would be like the USN leaving a Tomahawk cruise missile alone in the middle of the Nevada desert after its engine malfunctioned.
posted
Actually, "slapping another" torp in is almost exactly what I think it would have to do. The torp travels up into a breach area from the magazine chute, something seals the breach from the next torpedo that is in line in the chute, and then you have a flash of EM charge that propels the torp out of the tube. The only time required is for the seal mechanism to open and close, a torp to move into the breach, and some type of capacitor to recharge. Mechanically, all of this could occur in less than a second with current technology (i.e. mechanisms from a GAU-8 cannon operate at a MUCH faster rpm granted with a much smaller projectile but we are talking 24th century capabilities that should be more advanced), the only potential drawback from today's tech is the capacitor charging time, but again 24th century tech should be able to handle it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
All this provided that you are useing either quantum torpdeos or preloaded photons. Otherwise you have to count in the reactant injection time. (Again, most likely about a second. Seen injection presses shoot 50# of resin in .9 seconds)
quote:Originally posted by Shipbuilder: Actually, "slapping another" torp in is almost exactly what I think it would have to do. The torp travels up into a breach area from the magazine chute, something seals the breach from the next torpedo that is in line in the chute, and then you have a flash of EM charge that propels the torp out of the tube. The only time required is for the seal mechanism to open and close, a torp to move into the breach, and some type of capacitor to recharge. Mechanically, all of this could occur in less than a second with current technology (i.e. mechanisms from a GAU-8 cannon operate at a MUCH faster rpm granted with a much smaller projectile but we are talking 24th century capabilities that should be more advanced), the only potential drawback from today's tech is the capacitor charging time, but again 24th century tech should be able to handle it.
-------------------- Like A Bat Out Of Hell...
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Good point. Now we're talking fast. If the torp isn't preloaded we have a torp that has to be filled, joined, and transported from a deck below the airlock deck (unless this is mounted in the ceiling of that deck), slammed into the breach, breach sealed, and EM pulse launched, all in under a second. Whew!
Who would you have to bribe to get a Sovereign TM in one of the final ST:Magazines? *Homer speak...ummmmmmmmm Sovereign*
Also a good point about the torp recovery in Genesis, Mark.
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Normally, you try to work showstopper bugs out before integration into the hardware...(not that defects don't come up later on, but almost 10 years (using 2357 as the Galaxy launch and 2366 as the episode timeframe [3rd season?])is a long time for a BIG problem to crop up and cause a system to be scrapped.)
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