posted
I was not one of those fanboys thank you very much. I thought that the Intrepid and Sovereign were both integrated hull designs, no seperation possible. I thought we covered this too.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
Well, Eaves designed the E-E to be able to separate. I don't see why he would have made changes that would preclude a function he designed into the ship in the first place.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Poor Eaves. Has everyone's "list of people whose work I can appreciate" maxed-out at, uh, three, or something?
People are icky, anyway. Clutter up basement bedrooms.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds: ...Eaves said that this is how it was meant to be from the beginning, as far as the saucer curve and nacelle orientation go...
That wouldn't surprise me. Andy Probert told me he often had to fight to keep the modelmakers and propmakers from changing details on approved designs. The Cylon helmets were changed from the approved drawings just because the costumers decided they didn't like the mouthpiece, and the Ferengi makeups were altered from his (Roddenberry-approved) drawings by Westmore. He said he had to fight to keep ILM (and Bob Justman) from covering the E-D with a billion little 3 foot square hull plates because they liked all the extra detail, even though it made no sense to build a ship out of poster board sized sheets.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Nice to have the annotated drawings. I was fearing for much more extensive hull alterations. Moving the nacelles and adding the pylon phasers is a refit that could plausibly be done. Perhaps the nacelles simply were in the wrong position to begin with (if we assume that warp geometry computational modeling is as difficult to do then as aerodynamic computational modeling is now).
As for moving the citadel of an Arleigh Burke or altering the facet tilt, funny that you should mention this specific class. After all, the Block IIA changes to the design more or less amount to that very thing! Not that any single Burke would be changed from Block I or Block II to this standard, not under current budgetary plans anyway. But such a refit could plausibly take place. And if you add the aft hangar, you *have* to move the forward superstructures to avoid obscuring the aft SPY-1 arrays. One could perhaps infer a similar relationship between nacelle positioning and torpedo launcher positioning.
I'm a firm believer in the separation capabilities of the Sovereign class, even in this "reinforced" variant. Any ship with a saucer IMHO has that saucer solely for its ability to act as an atmospheric lifeboat. The Intrepid is atmospheric-capable in itself and needs not separate, of course... Those neck braces can probably be severed explosively or something.
Frankly, it gives me a warm feeling inside to think that Starfleet actually built a ship they had to extensively revamp and rebrace in order to make her properly spaceworthy...
posted
If I remember correctly, the Burke's citadel wasn't moved, they only redesigned the aft SPY radar housing. I did some grad-work on a composite hanger replacement design for these ships and saw a drawing detailing the placement of a bulkhead to bulkhead section installation...bascially plugging in an extension, and it was done aft of the superstructure. There was also some material replacement done throughout the ship to help equalize the weight changes.
Another funny oddity ...Burke class upgrades are known as Flight (I, II, IIA, etc.) not Block as shown above. So we have ships with Flight upgrades and aircraft with Block upgrades, crazy engineers?
As far as the EE changes...If Eaves says thats how it always should've been, then I can go for that too (minus the torp launchers which were easily refit). So I suppose this makes the Sovereign class a little shorter now? Wonder if he made her alittle deeper to account for that 29th deck?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm now thinking that the Sovereign always had a number of 6' half-decks between various decks -- since at the time of FC, Deck 16 really was on Level 16, at that time they would've been somewhere below that deck.
When Picard said 24 decks, he probably meant 24 decks; however, since the numbering system treats half-decks as full decks, there would be at least 26 Decks by the time of FC.
By the time of "Nemesis", the Enterprise-E could've been refitted with the maximum number of half-decks (48), meaning that Deck 29 would really be somewhere around the old Deck 15 -- tall enough for the fall.
I think we do see a few door signs on "Deck 29", although I don't remember what they read.
Note that the above is merely a hypothesis of mine which needs some testing and refinement.
posted
BTW, my Deck 29 comment was a joke. And I don't think we have any way of knowing that Riker and company were on Deck 29 when they started shooting at the Remans and therefore we can't assume those doors were on Deck 29 (would be interesting to see if they do say 29 tho).
I think its just another flub. With all the scale folks around here, has anybody ever tried to scale the EE and determine how many decks she SHOULD have? I'm sure this came up in an FC discusssion along time ago..just don't remember the results.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Shipbuilder: With all the scale folks around here, has anybody ever tried to scale the EE and determine how many decks she SHOULD have? I'm sure this came up in an FC discusssion along time ago..just don't remember the results.
She should have 23 decks but 24 is the most canon figure considering the MSD and Picard's FC dialogue. I'm yet to see Nemesis but a "Deck 29" would be a blunder that should be ignored.
posted
Actually, the underside was made a bit fatter. And to emphasis that a bit more they made a reference to deck 29. Pitty it still doesn't work out since appearantly you can fall deeper.
-------------------- "And they had other stuff (...) like pictures of the Vulcan woman on Enterprise." "OOOOhhh! Uhm, I mean: Nerds!"
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Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Funny thing, I remember staring at where the forward dorsal saucer launcher is and thinking it looked strange. . . Wish I'd thought to myself "Gosh, that looks like a launcher there" so I could feel really pleased with myself now.
posted
Maybe the presence of "Enterprise" changed these things so that they should have always been like that? Hence things were starting to change when Picard said 26 Decks, and then we hear it has 24 decks?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by MrNeutron: He said he had to fight to keep ILM (and Bob Justman) from covering the E-D with a billion little 3 foot square hull plates because they liked all the extra detail, even though it made no sense to build a ship out of poster board sized sheets.
Didn't they end up doing that anyway? And didn't it look a lot better, really?
quote:Originally posted by Shik: So basically...he built a brand-new ship. Idiots. You can't simply play with the structure ifd things like that.
Yeah, the bastard. Next thing he'll be doing it lowering the bridge dome, or removing the spikes from the engine nacelles, or changing the curiture of the underside of the saucer section, or shrinking the navigational deflector dish...
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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