Firstly, just my thoughts about my favourite ship, the Prometheus
Obviously it says on the hull NX-59650, which some people claim is due to Starfleet taking a long time to develop it, and the number being given before research started.
However, the Galaxy was NCC-70637 (previously NX like the Prometheus), and Galaxy ships we know of include Yamato (NCC-71807) and Challenger (NCC-71099). If numbers were assigned before research began, this would indicate a total research/construction/testing time for the Galaxy class to be only a few years, which is obviously wrong. Therefore it seems that numbers are assigned after research, and at the earliest at the beginning of construction (which still seems a little off with the Galaxy as I would expect them to take a lot longer to build the first one).
Then there's the NX-74913 number on the DP and MSD. This makes a lot more sense than the hull number.
Now, if I were in Starfleet, and I wanted to build a super-duper starship, I would try to minimise its obviousness (I think the EMH-2 says that its top secret), and one of the ways I could do this is by painting a fake number on the ship, to make it look old. That way, any curious aliens will look at it and think its an old ship. I could then put the real number inside, where only the crew could see it. Granted its a bit stretched, but it seems to be the only way that the Prometheus could have that number.
Every time we see a major new ship (Voyager, Defiant, Excelsior, etc), it has a number bigger than normal. The exceptions are various FC ships, which could feasibly have been older (perhaps there are two schools of thought on ship design, the mainstream "circular saucer" school and the Saber/Norway school). But the Prometheus is definately brand new, and so the odd registry must be fake.
Second thought is about Janeway.
I think she had 3 pips in Nemesis, which would make her a Vice-Admiral, which is a pretty senior rank (Ross had it I think, and he seemed to be in charge of the whole war, or at least a front). She has an office in San Francisco. That means she couldnt be the sector Admiral or whatever for wherever Picard was, because she would have been in a Starbase. She gives operational orders to the flagship of the Federation. She definately uses "we", as in "we decided", not "Paris decided and i'm his secretary". This surely must mean that she is in a very senior post in Starfleet operations. What I want to know is 1) who put her there? and 2) what were they thinking? Fine, give her a desk job. Fine, give her a high rank. But put her in charge of actual ships?
Adm Janeway: Commander, order the Seventh fleet to investigate that nebula i think looks pretty. Cdr: But Admiral, the Seventh fleet is our only line of defence against (vicous powerful never-seen-before enemy)! Adm Janeway: Do you want me to put you in a cargo bay and let vengeful aliens kill you or will you do what I say? Cdr: Of course sir, right away sir (runs)
How did she get put there with her record? I can imagine the scene...
Paris: So, lets see your logs for this trip. Janeway: Erm, I kinda deleted them. Paris: Why??? Janeway: They contained future technology. Couldn't contaminate the timeline. Paris: Hmmm. I guess I'll have to take you word for it then. How many times did you break the Prime Directive? Janeway: None at all. (evil laugh)
Anyway, thats just my thoughts for now
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
It could be that the Janeway we see is a decade or two older and more experienced than the one who returned in 2378 from the journey documented in ST:Voyager. About two decades' worth of time traveling would probably be needed for her to sort out the mess she made... Or then "Nemesis" takes place in the 2390s.
The poor Prometheus in turn might have been in the planning or under construction and testing for several decades before Starfleet finally got around to finishing her. One wonders how effective it would be to use fake registry numbers for counterintelligence purposes. Some real-world navies do change ship registries often - the Russians, for example. But that's mainly because their registries indicate the status and assignment of a ship and not just her identity.
Fake registries are seen in the aeronautics business, though: the U-2/TR-1 spy planes often sport fake registries, for example. So the idea might not be that far-fetched. In any case, the ship's display screens showed a registry in the 74000 range. So either the hull registry was a fake, or an older one that hadn't been painted over yet.
posted
And the registry of the third USS Defiant (formerly USS Sao Paulo) could be a tool of propaganda designed to fool the Dominion into thinking the second USS Defiant was recovered and rebuilt.
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posted
No, that was Admiral Ross having fun. He knew that two ships having exactly the same registry number would really annoy the Starfleet Vessel Register bureaucrats.
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posted
This is the first Nemesis topic I found in a search that seemed to be talking about the general impression of the movie so... here goes. PS: I ramble... don't hold it against me.
I just saw it for the first time on tape. I must say that after being gagged near death by Enterprise and Voyager... it was refreshing to see this movie. Don't get me wrong, my faith in the franchise is still quite in doubt, but it was a good 1:30. However, it was only an 1:30. The movie ended with me wanting more. Perhaps if I had a DVD player and watched it on DVD... there are deleted scenes on it right? Hopefully the scenes with Wes, the new XO, and the full Picard B4 scene would have added to it.
I agree after all the hype about how this was a Romulan movie it really wasn't. It seemed like a typical TNG episode where Picard/Shizon was the A plot, Data/B4 was the B plot, and they bound them together [a character centric based episode in other words]. I didn't hear a single mentioning of Lore, or Data giving odds on how he could fix B4. It was covered, and yeah, the Enterprise being out of torpedoes seemed odd. I think someone mentioned that it was also odd for Shizon to order a course set to Earth after his ship lost warp drive [I think it did anyway]. It wasn't until Shizon activated the Scimitar's radiation gun did I realize that was the method of killing off the Romulan Senate--- a prior mentioning of this would have added to the picture I think, outside of this the viewer had to guess.
For the very last film with the entire TNG cast together... I would have prefered more tie-ins, a lot more. For instance they could have explained that the DNA for Shizon was gained from the Cardassians during the short-lived Romulan/Cardassian alliance. Picard and Janeway seemed too familar with each other, they had obviously met but it seemed strange on how--- thsi doens't mention Janeway's promotion. Has Picard turned down the Admiral bars because he's on the Enterprise like Riker turned down command till now? Speaking of Riker's command, seeing the Titan would have been nice.
The scene with Picard and Data flying the Reman fighter answered a question that had been plaguing me for some time. I thought that it was flying inside the Enterprise... I'm glad I was wrong there, interesting escape. Why did Picard freeze upon killing Shizon? He could hear the countdown to the death of his crew right? Would throwing Shizon into the matrix have mattered in the end? Would the Scimitar survive that or was any interruption in the matrix dangerous to the ship? Would that not have stopped it. Why didn't Geordi and Data replicate another emergency transporter device? If Picard was going on a suicide mission, and Data was going to take his place, why didn't Data think it out a bit more? I guess the death of Data isn't impacting me as much if I hadn't spoiled myself back when the movie first came out, oh well, at least B4 opens an interesting possibility. It can be written into the story that Data's programming slowly assimilated into B4 neural net and he essentially became Data [with some new quarks maybe?] and because B4 was a prototype the materials that made him "age." <--- wishful thinking.
Let's see here... Deanna seemed a little too telepathic in the battle scene... the battle scene wasn't exactly as good as it was made out to be. It was alright don't get me wrong. But it wasn't the greatest scene in Trek history, I think Enterprise/Reliant had better moments. Why the heck did the Viceroy go into the Jefferies Tubes like that, he didn't exactly get any where... I doubt he would have gotten to the Bridge even if Riker hadn't followed him. Doing into that Nebula/Expanse was stupid. I would have had Shizon send a fleet of Romulan vessels to hold off the Federation Fleet... a good excuse to show more ships and remind people that the Romulans and the Federation are still enemies in this.
I would have had Data attempt to find out more about B4... possibly even look for the chip that was in his "mother." Look for notes from the Dr. In short a realistic story background on that one, it felt completely blank as it was. I felt that Bev Crusher was curiously abscent in the movie. Is Reg back on Earth still or did he join Voyager or something, really doesn't matter though. I missed the deck reference, didn't notice the new torpedoes. Why didn't they try to transport that guy back when he went out through the hole from the Bridge, when your an extra nobody cares.
Ok I've gone on an rambled enough... I suppose I should stop now and let people tell me how silly I am for spending so much time typing on this.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
Okay, well the only comments I have is that the deleted scenes with Wes are not included. Also, I liked the "alternate ending" a bit more than the ending that was chosen. Seeing Riker leaving the ship and saying goodbye and then Picard meeting his new XO and talking about the next mission made it seem like there was a future for the ship, whereas the actual ending did leave you wanting....especially, IIRC, not seeing, say Crusher, in the final scenes....and seeing that there will likely not be another TNG movie...it really made for a crappy ending.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: Now, if I were in Starfleet, and I wanted to build a super-duper starship, I would try to minimise its obviousness (I think the EMH-2 says that its top secret), and one of the ways I could do this is by painting a fake number on the ship, to make it look old. That way, any curious aliens will look at it and think its an old ship. I could then put the real number inside, where only the crew could see it. Granted its a bit stretched, but it seems to be the only way that the Prometheus could have that number.
Every time we see a major new ship (Voyager, Defiant, Excelsior, etc), it has a number bigger than normal. The exceptions are various FC ships, which could feasibly have been older (perhaps there are two schools of thought on ship design, the mainstream "circular saucer" school and the Saber/Norway school). But the Prometheus is definately brand new, and so the odd registry must be fake.
This would assume that any "curious aliens" would even have a clue about StarFleet's registry system in the first place. Most likely, if they had anything resembling the in-depth knowledge required to realize that this was an "old design", they'd also likely know that they'd never seen that design before, doncha think?
Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Phoenix: How did she get put there with her record? I can imagine the scene...
Paris: So, lets see your logs for this trip. Janeway: Erm, I kinda deleted them. Paris: Why??? Janeway: They contained future technology. Couldn't contaminate the timeline. Paris: Hmmm. I guess I'll have to take you word for it then. How many times did you break the Prime Directive? Janeway: None at all. (evil laugh)
Classic!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
OK, so 7th season of Voyager happens in 2377. Nemesis happens in 2379. So much for this "decade or two older and more experienced" idea
The most realistic and sensible thing that happen is probably that she was simply paroled by Federation President from whenever charges she was found guilty. And then she was quickly put behind desk
I mean, if Picard got away with his PD breaches, then Janeway can get away with hers as well
Oh, btw, according to Nemesis novelisation, Wesley is going with Riker to the Titan. Oh, and... if I recall correctly, Titan is the name of the ship that Shelby commands in New Frontier books, isn't she?
-------------------- "Do I remember about my amnesia?"
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kazeite: Oh, and... if I recall correctly, Titan is the name of the ship that Shelby commands in New Frontier books, isn't she?
No that's the U.S.S. Triton.
-------------------- "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Maybe the future Janeway survived and was put to work... already being an admiral and stuff..
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Registered: Nov 2002
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Maybeee the regiiiiistry system isn't chronologicaaaaaaaal~! Isn't chronologicaaaaaal~! Booooooooo~! Scaaaaaaaaary thought~!
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
Registered: Apr 2001
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I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
David gets +1000 X2 POWARUP for being right.
but then again, on registries and NF, i remember nearly shitting myself trying to comprehend a Galaxy-class Triton with the reg NCC-31347.. but i imagine they might still re-envision it as an Ambassador and the GCS reference David wrote was erroneous.
but i'm feeling much better now
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Or it was under development and construction for a really LOOOOONNNNNG time. Perhaps they started out with an Excelsior-class space frame and it slowly evolved into a Galaxy-class.
But a lot of you out there assume that a registry number is assigned just before a ship is commissioned. What if its assigned when a ship is ordered or when any design work commences on a starship? Projects do tend to get cancelled and then reactivated.
With so many cooks, and unintentional registry errors (can you say Prometheus), probably any un-used number between two and five digits is fair game. A Sovereign-class NCC-03 anyone?
Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Triton: With so many cooks, and unintentional registry errors (can you say Prometheus), probably any un-used number between two and five digits is fair game. A Sovereign-class NCC-03 anyone?
Only if you want a whole bunch of people to cough up blood.
-------------------- "God's in his heaven. All's right with the world."
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