quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: When I talked to Andy about it, he said when he first went to work on TMP, he pointed the turbolift and rec deck problems out to the set designer, but was essentially shot down.
--Jonah
The set designer in question is Harold ("Hal") Michelson...
...who also took the San Francisco Air Tram away from Andy when he declared it a "set".
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: What do you mean by 'took away'?
The Air Tram was being handled by the effects dept., but somewhere during production Hal decided it was a "set" and redesigned it.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Ahhh. Did it have to do with cost - like the Galileo in the series or Ego?
Are there alternate drawings/designs for the Air Tram?
I dunno if it was ego or just the fact that there was going to be a full-sized version on the set, so Hal decided it was a set element and his domain.
There are alternate versions of the air-tram. I have a stack of photocopies Andy gave me of drawings from TMP and Back to the Future, and amongst those are some air tram drawings. One is double-hulled and has a BART label on the nose (Bay Area Rapid Transit).
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Is it as squarish as the one we saw - or was it more... roundish
Has AndyP ever come here to Flare to have a look?
Is he still interested in Trek??
Andrew
The trams in question are no rounder than the one that appeared in the final film. In fact, the one that appears seems to have been influenced by Andy's designs.
Andy's feelings are Trek are somewhat mixed, I think. His feeling is the show died when Roddenberry did.
-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: DW: The Rec Deck problem is one that Andy Probert knows about. That, and the turbolift car shaped like a Tylenol capsule (which -- being 15 feet high wouldn't fit laterally along a 9-foot-high horizontal turboshaft), were artifacts of the set designer he had to answer to. Andy said that if you can figure out how the hell to make the rec deck fit in the saucer rim, go for it. But I personally don't think re-sizing the saucer to fudge it is the answer.
--Jonah
Actually, I have something radical to propose, though it will likely p*ss off EVERYBODY, Okudaites, Johnsonians and others alike:
I accept the overall size of certain sets like the Rec Deck and simply scale up the rest of the ship to fit them. This renders the saucer section approx 2 1/2 to 3 decks thick at the rim. The "Arboretum" in the secondary hull would be approx 2 decks high. Details like the airlocks are way oversized on the shooting model, and I hold that the "real" Enterprise's airlocks are about 45-50% the size shown.
This makes much more sense to me and solves problems I have with ALL the "major" scalings of the ship, namely lack of interior volume. Remember, these ships have to support a crew of up to 500 for as long as 5 years. The amount of consumables (air, water, raw foodstuffs, spare parts, matter/antimatter tanks, etc) ALONE would require massive amounts of storage space. Then there's the matter of where to put the auxilliary fusion generators, phaser banks, shield generators, so on and so forth.
Scaling up the ship makes more sense to me than trying to cram all that into the existing "official" scaled ship. It also solves many of the "oops" items people have been obsessing over (like the Engineering corridor issue, turboshaft sizes, etc)...
My opinion, of course, ymmv!
Registered: Mar 2002
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
just a side note, despite the licensed specs, theres no canon reference to the crew being increased to 500 by the upgrade, if anything, one would think the point of a refit might be to lower the amount of crew required to run the ship, not increase it..
canonically, by STVI, the E-A only had a crew of 300
Registered: Sep 2001
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I must say those are excellent postulates on what the deck surrounding the gangway hatch.
On another note:
Shane Johnson,
It is good to see you about. See what, or who, you miss when you don't hang around the boards as much anymore. I still have my dog-worn copy of "Mr. Scott's Guide" and your excellent "Starfleet Uniform Guide."
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: just a side note, despite the licensed specs, theres no canon reference to the crew being increased to 500 by the upgrade
If my memory of ST:TMP is correct, I recall that the computer in one scene, towards the end of the film, gave a crew complement of 430 or so, just like TOS.
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
There actually is canon proof in ST:TMP, tho not at the end, IIRC. As I recall, there's dialogue from some sort of computer voice (or maybe Decker?) in ST:TMP about crew status. I think it's prior to Enterprise launching and breaks it down by "xxx on duty, xxx off duty". I want to say it does indeed add up to 430, tho won't swear to it. Been a long while since I sat down and listened to that on my old VHS "Longer Version" of the movie. Have to pop it and my DVD SE versions in tomorrow to see what I can find.
Registered: Apr 2003
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It is indeed towards the end of the movie, tho I now forget the exact scene. I think it's a scene where we see Decker on a wall-screen talking to Ilia-Probe and Kirk is drinking a beverage of some sort in his quarters. Might be some bridge scene, tho I'm thinking it was in Kirk's quarters.
Anyhow, the breakdown is:
172 On Duty
248 Off Duty
11 in Sickbay
Totals up to 431.
Now, doesn't it drop down to like 300 for ST:VI? If so, why are there still crewmembers call "crammed in" to crew-bunk spacing instead of having either doubled up quarters as we saw in TOS...? Darn. Now I'm forced to watch another Star Trek movie again....
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
The ship in ST6 might be configured for this diplomatic escort mission only, leaving all the research crew ashore. Which would be why Spock had to ask the ship's surgeon to operate on that torpedo, instead of having Dr O'Dour from the Gaseous Anomaly Lab do the job.
Also, even if 130 researcers (mostly civilians or commissioned folks in all likelihood) were offloaded, no current navy would allow the enlisteds to squat in the empty officer or guest quarters...
Where in ST6 would the reference to 300 crew be seen or heard?
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