posted
G2K's pointed me in the direction of what I think is the clock in question, but it's barely onscreen for a second before the camera pans away; and I can't see any evidence of it counting very quickly. . .
On my version, there was enough fuzz and general digital ick in that region to cause all sorts of hard-to-see-through wackiness. It looked for all the world like the clock was running really fast, which would've been an extraordinary nod to Einstein. As it stands, the four days pretty much has to be ship time.
[And no, I don't know what I was thinking that made me even consider that the thoughtful nod to Einstein might possibly exist on an episode of Enterprise. :-) ]
My thinking on the clock was that if it were running fast, it would be showing external time. Since it is suggesting that the trip was four days of internal time, then we must assume that the time dilation value was less than a factor of five (which would've made the four-day impulse trip 20 days of external time, and thus valueless since warping around the thing would take three weeks, or 21 days).
Thus, we have a plot-based upper limit on the speed they were actually travelling. It could not have been more than about .98c, which is about where a time dilation factor of five comes into play.
Of course, given the whole mass-lightening thing in regards to impulse maneuverings, I could be all wrong . . . time dilation might not be an issue, even at sublight.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
I would think that all times given in the episode would be external times, not internal. Remember they are racing to this planet so they can stop the Xindi weapon, 21 days going around the anomaly at warp is too long... but they can go through it at Impulse in 4 days < neither are ship time, they are normal frame time, or external time.
This means: That no time dilation effect was apparent [maybe an honest mistake on production side]. In otherwords... 4 days inside was 4 days outside. The anomaly was not very wide, but was definately long and tall.
Actually right at this moment, I'm feeling bad for even mentioning time dilation and impulse speeds... etc etc--- it's getting nowhere and it was too much to expect of the production staff.
And yes, Phlox's make-up uses components from Cardassian molds.
-------------------- Later, J _ _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _ _ The Last Person to post in the late Voyager Forum. Bashing both Voyager, Enterprise, and "The Bun" in one glorious post.
posted
I don't know, but it feels to me there's something inherently wrong about *knowing* about 'external time'. If you can just adjust for time dilation by letting your clock run faster, doesn't that kind of invalidate the entire complexity of the "frames of reference" theory? It isn't just the clock that moves slower, it's time itself.
posted
Y'know, for the anomaly to be 21 days around at warp, but only four days thick at impulse, it would have to be multiple light-years wide, multiple light-years tall, and about one light-day deep.
Shouldn't they have seen it coming from a long way off, and been able to adjust course around it without adding an extra three weeks? I realize it was still forming, but it couldn't have appeared that quickly, or it would have been expanding much more rapidly than they made it out to be.
Also, isn't it odd how the anomaly appeared right in their path, almost like a wall? I wonder if we'll find out it was created there intentionally?
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Harry: I don't know, but it feels to me there's something inherently wrong about *knowing* about 'external time'. If you can just adjust for time dilation by letting your clock run faster, doesn't that kind of invalidate the entire complexity of the "frames of reference" theory? It isn't just the clock that moves slower, it's time itself.
Not that I'm a physicist or anything.
I think what the difference is, Harry, is that what we consider as "absolute" "external time" is not really absolute -- it's just the large majority of space that has similar time. It's still all relative. The "external" frame of reference is only considered external because it's what most people seem to experience.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by J: And yes, Phlox's make-up uses components from Cardassian molds.
That is interesting... I wonder if that was intentional or just money saving?
Or maybe it might explain why we don't see Denobulans in TOS and beyond... they become affiliated with the Cardassians or something - occupied like the Bajorans? "reclaiming cardassian brethren" or something?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
I believe Phlox is actually one of the very few off-world Denobulans. Remember that they seem more interested in their own lives than in, for example, movies. I think it's very probablu that the Denobulans weren't particularly interested in joining the Federation.
Besides, with such a complicated love live, who has time to go galavanting about the galaxy?
posted
Like the Tellerites, they're there, but more interested in doing their own thing and not expansion. In Trek, they make it look like Humans are the only race that really gets into colonization. Well, and the Borg.
-------------------- joH'a' 'oH wIj DevwI' jIH DIchDaq Hutlh pagh (some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps in the morning) The Woozle!
Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Well...the whole "colonization" thing seems to wear off after a few generations in space. Just look at all the "Vulcanoid" worlds.
It seems that each race colonizes several worlds with proximity of their homeworld, and in the Federation's case, many additional worlds are colonized by a mix of species living together (like the Maquis colonies) then those worlds, once established, branch out to the other worlds in those systems....
Small wonder the Romulans deem the Federation as "aggressivly expansionist".
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Regarding that wall-like anomaly... Perhaps its very thinness caused the crew to disregard it originally? (VOY "One" used the excuse that the nebula originally looked benign and passable; perhaps Archer has learned that thin anomalies in the Expanse are generally benign as well?)
And yes, that "racing against the external clock" argument is very good. If nothing is truly won by making 21 days "look" like four days, then why not take the long route?
...Except if taking a four-day trip instead of a 21-day one saves a lot of fuel. I'd really, REALLY like to see the refueling issue addressed in the show. Kirk was always signing fuel consumption reports. In comparison, Archer should be worrying about meeting the next collier as much as a WWI cruiser captain, or more...
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