posted
We all know the argument. I've heard why Frank G, and others believe it to be the Vulcan ships at the end of Unification, but what's the contrary side's argument.
------------------ "This should provide adequate sustenance for the Doctor Who marathon" -Fat Sarcastic Comic Book Guy
1) The Apollo-class Gage was the weird saucer thing in "Emissary" (DS9). Some people think this is correct, since the Gage is mentioned as being in that ep in the Encyclopedia, but someone actually said the Gage's name, so the saucer thing doesn't have to be the Gage. There's a passage in "The Making of DS9" that says the saucer was supposed to be the Melbourne's, anyway, I think.
2) The encyclopedia is wrong, and none of the Vulcan ships was the T'Pau, and we've never seen an Apollo.
------------------ http://frankg.dgne.com/ "Let's get those missiles ready to destroy the universe!" - TMBG
[This message was edited by The Shadow on June 10, 1999.]
posted
And in "Unification, Part 2", Riker asks Geordi if anyone of the Vulcan ships is the T'Pau. Geordi answers he doesn't know because of strong interference. I believe this is where the belief arises that the Apollo Class ships and the Vulcan ships are the same.
In the Okudagram from the first part, the class of the T'Pau is not given. Date of retirement (2364-41344.20), owner (Vulcan Merchant Marines, I believe), registry, and a few other trivial details are given. Throughout the episode, I saw no one pulling up the records of the T'Pau. So Riker and Geordi may not have known the T'Pau was Apollo. They both knew the ship was Vulcan and the ships they were looking at were Vulcan. So, they both jumped to assumptions-the T'Pau is among the three ships.
Further, starships of Starfleet have a starship configuration ("The Doomsday Machine")-nacelles, secondary hull (in most ships before 2365), and a primary hull. The Vulcan ships didn't hold to the starship configuration. I have never seen an official starship class of Starfleet before 2365 not hold to the starship configuration.
These are my arguments against the T'Pau being one of the three Vulcan ships.
The ship that is seen briefly in "Emissary" could not be the USS Melbourne. The USS Melbourne had 50% of its primary hull vaporized by the Borg Ship and is displaced by the Borg ship to the port of the USS Saratoga. The unidentified ship is to the USS Saratoga's starboard. To complicate matters, the USS Gage may been only in the script of "Emissary" and there may not have actually been a model. In the Deep Space Nine Collector's Edition, Issue 1, the USS Gage attacks the ship and is destroyed. Then the USS Kyushu jumps in and is destroyed. Then the USS Melbourne, the USS Bellerophon, the USS Yamaguchi, and the USS Saratoga engage the Borg ship. (I think the USS Bonestell got caught in the Battle and is trying to get out of the system. The direction she is going in that episode is parallel to the Borg ship and under the USS Saratoga.)
a --------------------- b l l l l l l l l l l ----------------------
c d e
Not to scale
a USS Kyushu b Unidentified ship c USS Melbourne d USS Saratoga e USS Bonestell
[This message was edited by Trinculo on June 09, 1999.]
posted
Well, one of the arguements has been that, since the T'Pau's deflector array was in pieces in the E-D's cargo hold, it couldn't have been one of the three ships at the end of "Unification II". However, if Riker asked Geordi if the T'Pau was there, they must not have thought that what they had in the cargo bay was enough to stop the ship from still flying around. Which kills that arguement.
------------------ "I ran into Charlie Fogg. He blacked my eye, and he kicked my dog. My dog turned to me, and he said, 'Let's head back to Tennessee, Jed.'" -The Grateful Dead, "Tennessee Jed"
posted
If the saucer thing in "Emissary" was supposed to be anything specific, then it was the Apollo class Gage. The episode shows the Yamaguchi, Bellerophon, Excelsior-Melbourne, Saratoga and Bonestell (the Oberth seen through the window), and the only thing left is the saucer.
Still, the statement in the Encyclopedia II is stronger, and the T'Pau is probably one of the three Vulcan ships, with or without deflector.
posted
Bernd: Let's assume that there are people who visit Starships and do not have an encyclopedia. What is the statement you are refering to?
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posted
Speaking of on-screen evidence, the Apollo class could be anything that has been shown or not. So I have to take the information in the Encyclopedia that says T'Pau = Apollo class. The rest is a matter of probability, and for me it's currently most probable that the Romulans didn't steal still another ship.
I'm aware that I could be totally wrong, and maybe Okuda just did the Encyclopedia without having the Gage saucer in mind that was probably supposed to be the "actual" Apollo class.
posted
Apollo Class- The design of this vessel is under debate. This debate stems from the SS T'pau, mentioned/seen in Unification II. The encyclopedia says this ship is an Apollo class, and according to on screen evidence one of the three ships seen at the end was the T'pau hence, the Vulcan ship is now an Apollo class. Riker also asks Geordi if one of the three ships is the T'pau, Geordi replies that he does not know due to interference. Many take this that Riker saw the three ships and knew they were Apollo classes, then he jumped to the conclusion that one of them might be the T'pau. Others argue that a strange saucer seen in DS9 Emissary was the Gage, an Apollo class vessel, which cancels out the Vulcan vessel. Many also believe that since the Vulcan ships did not follow the traditional saucer and secondary hull form of Starfleet vessels, that the T'pau can not be an Apollo class vessel. There is also the chance that the Encyclopedia is wrong and that the T'pau is not an Apollo class at all. Another argument against the T'pau being one of the three ships at the end was the fact that it's deflector array was strewn across the cargo bay floor of the Enterprise. However, it is not known if the deflector is really needed at all to 'fly' the ship.
Whew, that was a mouthful. Please tell me if I've missed anything or if anything is unclear.
------------------ "This should provide adequate sustenance for the Doctor Who marathon" -Fat Sarcastic Comic Book Guy
[This message was edited by USS Vanguard on June 14, 1999.]
posted
The episode (Frank G, can you get a vidcap of the mentioned item) shows an okudagram from the first Unification episode. This gives information about the T'Pau. It confirms the registry of the T'Pau as well as the USS Tripoli. However, the class information for both ships is missing.
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