Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
*yawn*
OK, say the goodies had a ship with all those technologies. And say the baddies also had a ship with all those technologies. Then what? How the fuck would a story be told any differently from the ones that were told without them? The extent of their influence would be that ships could travel faster and shoot harder. Nothing would really be different about anything except the SFX. And that novelty would wear off in a week. So.
Registered: Nov 1999
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"you can use the same technology to build a ship 100 times its size and complexity taking the same time to replicate as the 1/100th size ship did to manufacture the old way. Talk about an intimidation factor against foes like the Borg, Species 8472, the Romulans, and the Dominion."
The Borg, Species 8472, the Romulans, and the Dominion, they would not have this technology? Why not? And why not?
Registered: Oct 1999
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OK, say the goodies had a ship with all those technologies. And say the baddies also had a ship with all those technologies. Then what? How the fuck would a story be told any differently from the ones that were told without them? The extent of their influence would be that ships could travel faster and shoot harder. Nothing would really be different about anything except the SFX. And that novelty would wear off in a week. So.
Alright, so lets say the baddies DON'T have the tech. Turn the Federation into the Q-Continuum and follow their adventures as they interfere whilst not interfering with lower species.
-------------------- Silent enim leges inter arma.
Registered: Jan 2004
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
How about just not turning the Federation into anything and leaving the fanboy masturbatory fantasies at home?
-------------------- ".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
Irishman, I do indeed see your point - you are wondering if there are any fresh new plot developments and story archs available with the addition of these new technologies.
Actually, I think it's possible that lieutenant time traveller on NX-01 (name escapes me at present) comes from a world/era very similar to that which you are describing.
He's not just talking fanboy 'faster/bigger is better' drivel folks - although I can see why the knee-jerk reaction, since we all see it so often here. Just a warp drive opened up more stories that a Trek with only slower-than-light would possess, he's wondering if raising the capabilites another quantum level would do the same.
Let's try to contain our pavlovian reflexes, shall we?
-------------------- 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.' - Lazarus Long
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Lack of technological progression has never been due to a lack of imagination on the writers part. Rather, it's because it would effectively make stories untellable.
Look at TNG. The number of times the crew had to have technoamnesia in order to make the story work was staggering. "Oh no, someone has stolen something and they are somehow out of tractor beam range even though only 5 seconds have passed", "Oh no, the main computer isn't working and we can't use the transporters. And for some reason we've forgotten about those on the shuttles", "Oh no, the biofilters used to filter out evil viruses haven't worked, for UNEXPLAINED REASONS", "Oh no, we desperatly need some item which the replicator can't replicate, for UNEXPLAINED REASONS", and so on and so forth.
I don't think they treated Rom's self-replicating mines as a "nobel prize" idea. It was more "yeah, that's a good idea...we'll do that." The same as every other "what if we reroute power from the primary doowicky to the main transwasits thing to create an antiblippitybloop weapon" idea that Geordie or O'Brien or Torres ever had. And the way Rom spoke, it wasn't as if he was overcoming some technological problem...it was as if no-one had ever considered getting a replicator to replicate itself before. He came up with the idea, not the execution.
The self-replicating mines were, in my opinion, a huge mistake. They've essentially created a perpetual power-source, and that's a MASSIVE technological leap. Those mines are likely to be matter/antimatter, which means that they can replicate matter, which means that all starships now have unlimited energy to use forever and ever and ever. At the very least, why not spit out a load of those self-replicating mines whenever the ship gets attacked, set them on "attack Cardassians", and sit back?
Lee's right when he points out a lot of written stuff has much "harder" sci-fi. But Star Trek has never been "hard" in that respect. It's about recognisable humans wandering around the galaxy being human and nice and human and all lovely and stuff.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well isnt that what warfare is all about. Building bigger and better weapons before your enemies do. The CSA built the submarine first, the Germans invented mustard gas first, the Japanese built the shallow torpedo, the US built the Atom bomb. The idea for steam catapults to launch airplanes from carriers came from the British and used by the US. The US built nuclear powered ships first. The Russians launched the first man into space. Thats what its all about. Getting better stuff out to the front lines before your foes.
-------------------- "Who cares if we bomb a few hospitals, it just means we got them a second time" Warrant Officer Robert Clift, CVN-71 OEF
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Lee: Daniels. And I don't think he was a lieutenant originally, he just had the pips of one last time we saw him in a Starfleet uniform.
It'd be interesting if we saw Daniels 'caught' in a TNG uniform or a TOS uniform or something one time... showing he's been sneaking around other time-periods
The number of uniforms Starfleet has had and accessory changes - you probably could work out which day he was visiting.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I've also thought that Daniels should appear in some other series' clothes. And it also occurred to me when I re-watched "Zero Hour" that his usual ribbed outfit looked kinda Reman. . . I can't really see it as any kind of uniform Starfleet or the Federation would ever wear - not that we know he's from either, really.
quote:Originally posted by Intruder1701: Well isnt that what warfare is all about. Building bigger and better weapons before your enemies do. The CSA built the submarine first, the Germans invented mustard gas first, the Japanese built the shallow torpedo, the US built the Atom bomb. The idea for steam catapults to launch airplanes from carriers came from the British and used by the US. The US built nuclear powered ships first. The Russians launched the first man into space. Thats what its all about. Getting better stuff out to the front lines before your foes.
"Those mines are likely to be matter/antimatter, which means that they can replicate [anti]matter, which means that all starships now have unlimited energy to use forever and ever and ever."
Yeah, but when was the last time a starship had fuel problems? Did the Voyager crew ever even mention being worried about running out of antimatter?
Registered: Mar 1999
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The CSA was not the first with the sub. It was even earlier than that. I believe the US (or pre-US Americans) had them back in the mid to late 18th century.
-------------------- Is it Friday yet?
Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Chase Ultra Magnus: Who reads SF?
I do! For fuck's sake- Trek is NOT about the technology. Tech (in Trek) is a means to an end but is rarely the motivation for the characters.
Something to consider with those magic replicators: they dont just make matter up from the quantum level: they take stored matter and re-form it into other- computer stored- patterns.
You still would'nt be able to just whip up a Sovvie in "a matter of hours" (even in daniels' future I imagine)because you'd have to have the raw materials and a power source to go in the ship. Even by replicating Antimatter/Anti-M, you'd have to insert that power from somewhere.
Besides, Trek rarely uses it's tech half as much as they could: we just asw the FIRST time someone disabled a starship via transporter fuckery this past season. Why not just knock down an opponent's shields and beam out all the air? Or just beam them into space or de-materialize them into your ship's raw materials recycler and have a nice steak dinner-at their expense? Why not just convert half a enemy ship to Antimatter and watch the fireworks from a safe distance?
Why no FTL weaponry? Even the torpedos they DO are far less yield than today's nukes (I blame Mayer and his submarine fetish for this).
If you want amazing, mind- expanding tech- read Greg Bear or Dan Simmons. Bear even wrote one old TOS novel (The Rift?) expanding
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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