quote:Originally posted by Toadkiller: Actually with today's home computers a fan could do it if they had the skills and the time.
I probably missed it - but is their a picture of the suggested design for TNG?
I think Dukhat asked Sternbach about this on Trek BBS a while back. As I recall the answer was a resounding "don't have a clue". Really, what dose it matter? Now admittedly the Pegasus was a missed opportunity and in that case I might support "replacing" it. However, as I understand it was meant to be a prototype so from an economical point of view it'd be a miniature they couldn't use ever again (being a one of a kind), which for a Starfleet ship makes it a bit of a waste of money. So deciding NOT to spend money on it is understandable.
quote:Originally posted by Sean: You know, a thought just occured to me. WE know that the E-nil went through a refit between the 2250's and the 2260's. ( depending on how the new movie version looks, there might be ANOTHER refit in there somewhere) What if Kirk's line of " only 12 like her in the fleet" referred to post (first)refit Connies. Not all of the Connies need be refitted at the time of that line, so that would allow for more than just 12 Constitution class ships in Kirk's era. Starfleet must have built more than 12 of it's most powerfull ships between 224_, and 2266 ( that is when TOS takes place right?), so maybe the older run of Connies were refitted, and the newer ones left as is and waiting for the TMP refit.
I'm probably wrong though.
I don't think you're wrong. That's sort of what I've been maintaining, and occasionally getting shouted down for, for years. I go with an extrapolation of FJ's vessel type/hull design number-block notion, and by that they were well into the production run by the time of TOS, since the Defiant was NCC-1764, and probably wasn't the most recent one off the blocks.
Even if she were only twenty years old by the time Kirk got her, the Enterprise and the other survivors of such a surprisingly hostile galaxy (look at the attrition numbers for TOS alone, then estimate that backwards until you get to the ship's launch date) would have all achieved a sort of legendary status, the ones surviving longest being the most awe-inspiring.
And since I like the idea that the Enterprise entered service first, while the Constitution remained a testbed vessel for a while, that would make the big "E" the longest serving Connie by the time TOS took place. Wonderful mystique...
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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I honestly don't know what to think of Rick's design vis a vis the ship from "The Naked Now" or "The Pegasus". TNG had some weird notions about ships' complements. The Tsiolkovsky had 87 people aboard, which seems light for an Ambassador-esque design. Similarly, I remember the Pegasus was a smallish ship with a smallish crew for testing the Federation's phasing cloak.
But then we also have the Lantree with its crew of 26 in a roughly Constitution-sized spaceframe, or the Arcos with its crew of 2.
...Contrasted against the Enterprise-D with over a thousand people aboard. Even stripping away families and rotating mission specialists... *shrug*
Nor do I think all instances of the Grissom miniture being reused should be replaced. The Vico, for instance, makes sense as a surplussed older Surveyor (contemporary Starfleet livery ignored). Maybe the Cochrane, too, as they're going to need Surveyors in the newly-opened Bajor Sector.
As for difficulty, or doing it right...? I think this is only a few tweaks away from being the Star Wars I've always wanted. The original was great, but as soon as George started messing with it again in the '90s, each of his "special editions" have diminished as much as they've added to it. This guy spent over two years working on this and, speaking as an aspiring filmmaker myself, this is almost what I think Star Wars should be once George opened the gates by modifying the original.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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Where is the evidence that there were any plans for a new ship design at the time of "The Naked Now"? IIRC, Sternbach didn't come up with a design until they were working on "The Pegasus".
George Lucas' tweaking of his films has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth, and I haven't been impressed with TOSR in the slightest. I prefer to come up with creative rationalizations for what we saw onscreen rather than to pretend it didn't happen that way or try to change it.
I personally see nothing wrong with the idea that SF would continue to use and build basic spaceframe designs for many decades, upgrading various internal systems and components along the way. It's just like the manufacture of cars and airplanes and ships today. Also, like evolution in regard to the body plans of animals. You can only re-engineer something so much before the design becomes more or less static. How much would the functions required of a starship really change between the 23rd and 24th centuries?
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I was as disappointed when they'd show us an old ship class as the next fan, but I wouldn't support "official" remasterings either.
The money/effort is better spent on new content, trek or otherwise.
As for SF - we see very little technology change (other than FX) over the what, century or so TOS-post DS9. Clearly Scotty, while impressed, at least had a basic idea of what the parts were. Compared to actual navy tech from WW1 until today - a WW1 engineer wouldn't even know what a gas turbine was, let alone how to work on one. The basic motive force has changed dramatically. There's hardly any steam driven ships left anywhere, discounting nukes.
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
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It's all post-singularity anyway. In reality people in Star Trek would cease to lead lives that were recognizable to us pretty damn quickly.
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-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
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Clearer in many aspects.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
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1. First, I want to thank The Red Admiral (is he even here anymore?), for his article on Trekmania.net about the "Unified Starship Design Theory." It helped me organize the likely Ambassador-era designs of the Antares, Apollo, Hokule'a and Wambundu classes, which also helps explain why there are only one or two vessels of these classes around by TNG.
2. It's been assumed for years that the Ambassador Class was the "midpoint" between the Excelsior and Galaxy classes (it certainly was supposed to be that way when TNG first premiered and the only design for the Ent-C was Andrew Probert's), but judging by the registries, that's really not the case. Although design-wise it's sort of a midpoint, it seems the Ambassador class was phased out even before the huge surge in Excelsior class production started, and the only starship class that was wedged in between the mass production of Excelsiors and the start of the Galaxy class "family" was the Renaissance. So is the Renaissance class the "missing link?"
3. (Continuing from #2) The Raven. Although she is definitely a Federation ship, it's not definite that the Raven was a former Starfleet vessel. However, other Federation ships (i.e. the Lakul, the T'Pau), look nothing like Starfleet vessels, while the Raven has very Starfleet-like features (warp nacelles, runabout-ish design, Starfleet pennants and markings). I conjecture that she was a former Starfleet vessel that was decommissioned and given to the Hansens. Since her warp nacelles match no other known ship type, I'm speculating that she is similar in design to the Renaissance class; perhaps she is even a member of that class (I distinctly remember someone referring to the U.S.S. Aries as a "small scout ship" or something like that, in "The Icarus Factor," but none of the online scripts for that episode make that comment, and I don't have the DVD of the ep handy. Perhaps someone could take 48 minutes out of their time to watch the episode & tell me?
4. I was going to talk about the Oberth class here, but for Reverend's sake, I'll demur.
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quote:Originally posted by Sean: If you're reffering to the "official replacement", I think it was an Ambassador-esque design.
Based on the MSD-ish sketch by Sternbach: Mr. Sternbach's a mmeber over at SSM and he said he really liked this model. My modeling hobby is eternally justified! Pardon the registry number and font- those have since been replaced on the model.
Of course, this big cow of a design would not easily work in the context of the story as compared to a small ship, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense that the Galaxy systems would be tested on something large....and that such a valuable experiment would be on a tougher ship than an Oberth!
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quote:Originally posted by Sean: If you're reffering to the "official replacement", I think it was an Ambassador-esque design.
Based on the MSD-ish sketch by Sternbach: Mr. Sternbach's a mmeber over at SSM and he said he really liked this model. My modeling hobby is eternally justified! Pardon the registry number and font- those have since been replaced on the model.
Of course, this big cow of a design would not easily work in the context of the story as compared to a small ship, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense that the Galaxy systems would be tested on something large....and that such a valuable experiment would be on a tougher ship than an Oberth!
Nothing against the model itself, I just never liked that configuration. Which is why when I did (read started) the Apollo for ASDB I used an arrangement that was more Nebula inspired than this Miranda-with-secondary-hull take on it.
quote: 4. I was going to talk about the Oberth class here, but for Reverend's sake, I'll demur. [Razz]
You know I'm RIGHT! [/Sybok]
As far as the Renaissance goes, I always had that one pencilled in for a re-visit as I was never happy with the version the ASDB originally put out. I saw it as being stylistically similar to Probert's original Ambassador painting. I think I did some thumbnail sketches that had it an a catamaran type configuration...but then Enterprise came out.
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