posted
I'd like to point out the possibility that no one seems to have considered. It's quite possible that BOTH ships survived.
OK. We know that 39 ships were destroyed at 359. I don't believe that anyone ever said 39 FEDERATION ships, just 39 ships. We know that Starfleet was sending 40 ships. We also know that there was at least one Klingon ship there (thanks to Voy's "Unity"), which gives us a minimum total of 41 ships. That leaves at least two unacounted for. Of course, it's always possible that Admiral Whosit was rounding up, and that 'Fleet actually sent 39 ships, and that that one BoP was the only Klingon ship there, but that doesn't seem too likely.
------------------ For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - H. L. Mencken
posted
Well, First One, I don't want to ignore what we've been told, I'm just suggesting that maybe what we've been told shouldn't be taken as seriously as what we can prove. It seems the rule of parsimony applies here, what we know about the Endeavour is more than we know about the Ahwahnee and given that we have script evidence for one and not the other we might be saving ourselves some trouble. What if someone comes along in a future script and says: "The Endeavour under Captain Amasov was the only ship to survive Wolf 359." Are we still gonna bitch about the Ahwahnee when we never really had anything on it to begin with? IMHO it's just gonna have to remain one of those kitbash ships that we can't with any certainty label.
Which brings us to the point we may have here, that one of these ships actually SURVIVED and managed to get away (the Endeavour), and that another (perhaps the free-floating Ahwahnee) was re-built. That is, badly damaged enough to require a complete overhaul and perhaps considered 'destoyed' in the formal figures given in Picard's courtmartial.
------------------ Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.
[This message has been edited by jh (edited September 29, 1999).]
posted
The use of the last three digits might be a more recent recognition-oriented scheme, though.
As for the lower registries, should I mention the Prometheus?
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I firmly believe that the entire Star Trek universe exists only to make sure we continue to appreciate Star Wars and Babylon 5." - Andy Ihnatko
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
But, only the NX-59650 number was seen on-screen. :P
------------------ Frank's Home Page "I firmly believe that the entire Star Trek universe exists only to make sure we continue to appreciate Star Wars and Babylon 5." - Andy Ihnatko
posted
The dialogue in "The Best of Both Worlds, Part 2" suggests that there were 40 Federation starships and that a small fleet of Klingon warships were on their way to the Wolf 359 system. A later episode, "The Drumhead", gave the casuality figures as 39 ships and 11,000 lives lost. The 39 ships could be a combination of Federation and Klingon ships. Just for interest, my list of destroyed and damaged ships USS Ahwahnee NCC-71620 USS Bellerophon NCC-62048 USS Bonestell NCC-31600 USS Buran NCC-57580 USS Chekov NCC-53702 USS Cousteau USS Firebrand NCC-68723 USS Gage NCC-11672 USS Kyushu NCC-65491 USS Liberator NCC-67016 USS Melbourne NCC-62043 USS Princeton NCC-58904 USS Roosevelt NCC-2573 USS Saratoga NCC-31911 USS Tolstoy NCC-62095 USS Yamaguchi NCC-26510
I thing the problem with the registries is that there is a lack of communication between the different production companies that work to make an episode or film of Star Trek and a a lack of effort to ensure that things are not forgotten or altered.
From the few e-mails I have had with Mr. Okuda, I would suggest that Mr. Okuda works in a limited and confined part of Star Trek's production. He produces the okudagrams, supervises some of the modeling when asked to be involved, and writes coffee table books. He has limited contact with the other members of the production company or companies. And there are times when he makes errors when he should know better-the USS Raman's registry. For the reasons cited, I feel honestly that there will never be a "complete" encyclopedia or a lack of inconsistency in Star Trek.
I see this problem at work. An employee is assigned to a department and supervised by a manager. He or she develops tunnel vison-concentrating solely on the job, interacting sparsely with the other employees of a different department, and thinking about how to make the job better. When this individual becomes a manager, he or she carries the traits they developed as a non-manager. This can result in a lack of communication or understanding.
To apply this understanding to Star Trek, USS Prometheus as example Mr. Okuda sees the USS Prometheus as being NX-74913. The dedication plaque and the MSD, which he supervises, are both labeled with this registry. In the CGI modeling, the modelers see the registry as different. They understand the ship to be a prototype. However, their understanding of registries as laid out by Mr. Okuda is limited. They give the ship the registry NX-59650. These are two separate departments within two distinctly unique companies. They communicate enough information to get the following information to each other-the USS Prometheus is a newer ship, the class ship of a class of advanced warships, the ship can become three ships, etc. The details are seen differently, resulting in errors.
For in company example of lack of communication, I mistakenly asked Mr. Okuda if he knew what the class designations of the USS Centaur and the USS Curry. I was asking for the classes of each ship. Mr. Okuda responded that he didn't know the class designations. He remembered, unassuredly, that Mr. Sternbach had done something with the issue and might know.
The question is, Who has the most knowledge? There is no definitive answer. The best approach is to take the different views of the individuals or groups involved and attempt to come to a understanding that you can accept and be comfortable with.
For me, I accept and am comfortable with the following * Registry 70000 to 71000 First introduced in the late 2350's * Registry 71000 to 72000 First introdued in the early 2360's * Registry 72000 to 73000 First introduced in the mid 2360's * Registry 73000 to 74000 First introduced in the late 2360's * Registry 74000 to 75000 First introduced in the late 2360's * Registry 75000 to 76000 First introduced in the early 2370's
The USS Ahwahnee in 2367 had the registry NCC-71620 The USS Prometheus in 2374 had the registry NX-74913
posted
For more information on why the Endeavour could have just ran into a Borg Scout Vessel, read the thread entitled 'USS Excalibur ($$$)' (unless you don't want spoilers)
posted
It was apparently the Enterprise-E Captain's Yacht.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
The Awanahee was salvaged from 359 and rebuilt as for reassigning it a new number, they shouldn't unless NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract and rebulds get a new number - but thats a whole 'nuther topic. Now stop bickering 'bout it
Now for the Endeavourthough the uncertainty of the endeavour's status at this point, being that it was refrenced to after 359 and considering the pristege of the ship i have concluded that; it was not at 359 and that the Endeavour has encountered the Borg through its voyages.
take it that the vast space the federation has, when a borg cube ventures into the federation the odds of encountering the Enterprise under the command of Picard everytime is not possible, therefore other ships should have encounter the borg