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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » Starships & Technology » USS Endeavour, Wolf 359 survivor? (Page 3)

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Author Topic: USS Endeavour, Wolf 359 survivor?
Omega
Some other beginning's end
Member # 91

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I'd like to point out the possibility that no one seems to have considered. It's quite possible that BOTH ships survived.

OK. We know that 39 ships were destroyed at 359. I don't believe that anyone ever said 39 FEDERATION ships, just 39 ships. We know that Starfleet was sending 40 ships. We also know that there was at least one Klingon ship there (thanks to Voy's "Unity"), which gives us a minimum total of 41 ships. That leaves at least two unacounted for. Of course, it's always possible that Admiral Whosit was rounding up, and that 'Fleet actually sent 39 ships, and that that one BoP was the only Klingon ship there, but that doesn't seem too likely.

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For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
- H. L. Mencken


Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
jh
Ex-Member


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Well, First One, I don't want to ignore what we've been told, I'm just suggesting that maybe what we've been told shouldn't be taken as seriously as what we can prove. It seems the rule of parsimony applies here, what we know about the Endeavour is more than we know about the Ahwahnee and given that we have script evidence for one and not the other we might be saving ourselves some trouble. What if someone comes along in a future script and says: "The Endeavour under Captain Amasov was the only ship to survive Wolf 359." Are we still gonna bitch about the Ahwahnee when we never really had anything on it to begin with? IMHO it's just gonna have to remain one of those kitbash ships that we can't with any certainty label.

Which brings us to the point we may have here, that one of these ships actually SURVIVED and managed to get away (the Endeavour), and that another (perhaps the free-floating Ahwahnee) was re-built. That is, badly damaged enough to require a complete overhaul and perhaps considered 'destoyed' in the formal figures given in Picard's courtmartial.

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Proverbs for Paranoids, 3: If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.

[This message has been edited by jh (edited September 29, 1999).]


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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The use of the last three digits might be a more recent recognition-oriented scheme, though.

As for the lower registries, should I mention the Prometheus?

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Frank's Home Page
"I firmly believe that the entire Star Trek universe exists only to make sure we continue to appreciate Star Wars and Babylon 5." - Andy Ihnatko


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The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
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Actually, no, you shouldn't. That's a sore point right now. 8)
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Fabrux
Epic Member
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Both the Prometheus's dedication plaque and MSD say NX-74913. Only the hull says NX-59650...

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Elim Garak
Plain and simple
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Yes, everyone is still healing.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")


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Aethelwer
Frank G
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But, only the NX-59650 number was seen on-screen. :P

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Frank's Home Page
"I firmly believe that the entire Star Trek universe exists only to make sure we continue to appreciate Star Wars and Babylon 5." - Andy Ihnatko


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colin
Active Member
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The dialogue in "The Best of Both Worlds,
Part 2" suggests that there were 40
Federation starships and that a small fleet
of Klingon warships were on their way to the
Wolf 359 system. A later episode, "The
Drumhead", gave the casuality figures as 39
ships and 11,000 lives lost. The 39 ships
could be a combination of Federation and
Klingon ships.
Just for interest, my list of destroyed and
damaged ships
USS Ahwahnee NCC-71620
USS Bellerophon NCC-62048
USS Bonestell NCC-31600
USS Buran NCC-57580
USS Chekov NCC-53702
USS Cousteau
USS Firebrand NCC-68723
USS Gage NCC-11672
USS Kyushu NCC-65491
USS Liberator NCC-67016
USS Melbourne NCC-62043
USS Princeton NCC-58904
USS Roosevelt NCC-2573
USS Saratoga NCC-31911
USS Tolstoy NCC-62095
USS Yamaguchi NCC-26510

I thing the problem with the registries is
that there is a lack of communication between
the different production companies that work
to make an episode or film of Star Trek and a
a lack of effort to ensure that things are
not forgotten or altered.

From the few e-mails I have had with Mr.
Okuda, I would suggest that Mr. Okuda works
in a limited and confined part of Star Trek's
production. He produces the okudagrams,
supervises some of the modeling when asked to
be involved, and writes coffee table books.
He has limited contact with the other members
of the production company or companies. And
there are times when he makes errors when he
should know better-the USS Raman's registry.
For the reasons cited, I feel honestly that
there will never be a "complete" encyclopedia
or a lack of inconsistency in Star Trek.

I see this problem at work. An employee is
assigned to a department and supervised by a
manager. He or she develops tunnel
vison-concentrating solely on the job,
interacting sparsely with the other employees
of a different department, and thinking about
how to make the job better. When this
individual becomes a manager, he or she
carries the traits they developed as a
non-manager. This can result in a lack of
communication or understanding.

To apply this understanding to Star Trek,
USS Prometheus as example
Mr. Okuda sees the USS Prometheus as being
NX-74913. The dedication plaque and the MSD,
which he supervises, are both labeled with
this registry.
In the CGI modeling, the modelers see the
registry as different. They understand the
ship to be a prototype. However, their
understanding of registries as laid out by
Mr. Okuda is limited. They give the ship the
registry NX-59650.
These are two separate departments within two
distinctly unique companies. They communicate
enough information to get the following
information to each other-the USS Prometheus
is a newer ship, the class ship of a class of
advanced warships, the ship can become three
ships, etc. The details are seen differently,
resulting in errors.

For in company example of lack of
communication, I mistakenly asked Mr.
Okuda if he knew what the class designations
of the USS Centaur and the USS Curry. I was
asking for the classes of each ship. Mr.
Okuda responded that he didn't know the class
designations. He remembered, unassuredly,
that Mr. Sternbach had done something with
the issue and might know.

The question is, Who has the most knowledge?
There is no definitive answer. The best
approach is to take the different views of
the individuals or groups involved and
attempt to come to a understanding that you
can accept and be comfortable with.

For me, I accept and am comfortable with the
following
* Registry 70000 to 71000
First introduced in the late 2350's
* Registry 71000 to 72000
First introdued in the early 2360's
* Registry 72000 to 73000
First introduced in the mid 2360's
* Registry 73000 to 74000
First introduced in the late 2360's
* Registry 74000 to 75000
First introduced in the late 2360's
* Registry 75000 to 76000
First introduced in the early 2370's

The USS Ahwahnee in 2367 had the registry NCC-71620
The USS Prometheus in 2374 had the registry NX-74913

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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory


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The359
The bitch is back
Member # 37

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For more information on why the Endeavour could have just ran into a Borg Scout Vessel, read the thread entitled 'USS Excalibur ($$$)' (unless you don't want spoilers)

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"I am Sci-Fi"
-The 359



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USS Vanguard
i hate clowns
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Did I miss something? Where'd the uSS Cousteau come from?
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Elim Garak
Plain and simple
Member # 14

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It was apparently the Enterprise-E Captain's Yacht.

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Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")


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Basill
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I missed something too. Why is it posted on a list of ships that participated in the battle of Wolf 359?

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Just a thought...A grain of salt-season to taste-lather, rinse, repeat


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The359
The bitch is back
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The Cousteau came from some Magazine I believe. I used to have it on my list too, but I deleted it due to lack of evidence

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"I am Sci-Fi"
-The 359


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Basill
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I must have missed something too. Why is a Cousteau posted in a list of ships participating at Wolf 359?

This is a second attempt post. Hope it's not a double post, but I don't think I followed the directions correctly the first time.

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Just a thought...A grain of salt-season to taste-lather, rinse, repeat


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Brown_supahero
Active Member
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The Awanahee was salvaged from 359 and rebuilt
as for reassigning it a new number, they shouldn't unless
NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract and rebulds get a new number - but thats a whole 'nuther topic.
Now stop bickering 'bout it

Now for the Endeavourthough the uncertainty of the endeavour's status at this point, being that it was refrenced to after 359 and considering the pristege of the ship i have concluded that; it was not at 359 and that the Endeavour has encountered the Borg through its voyages.

take it that the vast space the federation has, when a borg cube ventures into the federation the odds of encountering the Enterprise under the command of Picard everytime is not possible, therefore other ships should have encounter the borg


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